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History of Kirkdale

Kirkdale occupies an area of flat land on the banks of the Mersey, formerly consisting of sand hills, for which this part of the Sefton coast is still well known. It is one of the oldest coastal settlements, pre-dating Liverpool itself, and containing evidence for centuries of human occupation.

Chirchedale, Domesday; Kirkedale, 1185; Kierkedale, 1200.

Origins: from Norse kirk (church), and dale (valley / ‘road to’); therefore the name may mean “the road to the church”, referring to the road from Liverpool to its mother church at Walton-on-the-Hill. This would help explain the fact that there are no traces of an ancient church in the area, and only scant sign of an original village. Kirkdale Road was an important route into Liverpool too, once the emerging town became a market destination for traders and producers across Lancashire.

[J.A. Picton recorded that in 1699, when a case was being made for Liverpool becoming a parish in its own right, separate from Walton, one of the reasons was that parishioners were being distracted on their way to church by the ale house in Kirkdale! In that sense the place name referred to a village sitting on the road between Liverpool and Walton, namely Kirkdale Road, which becomes Walton Road at the suggested old centre of Kirkdale itself.]

Morley Street (on a site now occupied by football pitches) can be considered the next best thing to a founding village: it was the place where settlement existed before Liverpool engulfed the area, and can be seen on the early Ordnance Surveys. Kirkdale Marsh lay to the north of here, while Beacon Gutter, a small stream running to the south of Blackfield House, formed the southerly boundary with Liverpool.

Landscape

James Picton, historian and architect, could write in the 19th century that Kirkdale consisted of two hills, with a road (the ‘dale’) running between. The Blackfield Terrace area was one hill, whilst the second hill can be found in the area formerly occupied by the Liverpool Industrial School (see below).

A stream ran between the two hills, from the suburb of Walton to the place where Canada Dock now sits. This route can now probably be identified with the rough direction of Bank Hall Street, which runs south west towards the River Mersey from Stanley Road. The stream entered the Mersey at Bank Hall, an important building in the history of Kirkdale.

The Moores and Bank Hall

Kirkdale became home to the Moore family from the 13th century onwards. Up until that time John de la More had owned a house – Moore Hall, first mentioned in 1236 – in the north part of the town of Liverpool. But the family began to acquire lands in Kirkdale, and eventually built a new home out there. This was called Bank Hall, and the ‘Old Hall’, which gave its name to Old Hall Street, was left to the family’s Lady Dowager to live in.

The Old Hall continued in use until the 19th century, although it passed into the hands of the Stanley family as the fortunes of the Moores waned. The Perry map of 1768 shows the Old Hall as a large house with wings and gardens to one side. In the hundred years which followed this, the house was gradually altered and eventually demolished.

Bank Hall itself was a moated house, with a causeway between two lakes giving access to the building itself. It stood on the corner of what are now Bankhall Lane and Juniper Street, although the roads have seen some reshaping in the intervening years.

The coast to the west of Kirkdale was, before the arrival of the docks, popular as a destination for bathers and those seeking the fresh air. Later, when the Wellington, Huskisson and Sandon Docks were built, Southport replaced Kirkdale as the preferred holiday destination for discerning Liverpudlians.

Kirkdale Gaol

While Kirkdale was still an open landscape, a large gaol was constructed, incorporating a courthouse. Eyebrows were raised in Liverpool around the need for such as huge house of correction, which was said to be able to hold the entire population of Liverpool at the date it opened (1818). The building replaced the previous gaol, closer to the seafront, which had been described by the prison reformer John Howard as ” insufferably dirty, grimy and wretched”.

In 1835 the court moved to Liverpool itself (eventually to St George’s Hall), but the gaol’s catchment area covered the whole of south Lancashire. Prisoners who would previously have been sent to Lancaster now came to Kirkdale, and a good number were executed here in public.

The building itself was at the end of Sessions Road (appropriately), a place used since its demolition in 1897 as a recreation ground. The layout used the fashionable model of the ‘Panopticon’, with two towers in the centre which each looked over its own wing. The prison officers were thus able to watch the prisoners in their cells without the prisoners knowing precisely when (or by whom) they were being watched.

Kirkdale Industrial School

This school was another state-run institution, for the teaching of ‘pauper’ children, and stood on a site to the north east of the Gaol. It opened in 1845 to the designs of Lockwood and Allom, and was considered an attractive building at the time (some illustrations show a rather palatial-looking building).

The 400 children were taught reading, writing and arithmetic, as well as religious instruction and useful trades like carpentry, shoemaking and needlework. Eventually the buildings proved too small for the number of children needing to be taken care of, and new buildings were designed by Picton & Son.

When the need for such institutions fell out of favour in the 20th century, the building became the Kirkdale Homes for the Aged and Infirm, and were eventually taken into ownership by the council and Hospital Board. Now, however, the buildings have been demolished, and a network of modern roads and houses occupy the site.

Kirkdale, Liverpool and urban development

A village so close to the ambitious and growing town of Liverpool could not expect to stay rural for very long. The old Moore Hall on the edge of town was already becoming surrounded by buildings as the 18th century wore on, and was altered and demolished to make way for road improvements from 1820 onwards. Picton tells us that Kirkdale was still mostly rural at the beginning of the 19th century, and was still only half-developed by around 1850, and the 1851 Ordnance Survey backs this up. But new roads were being added onto Liverpool’s northern fringes to cater for the growth in businesses which were spreading out from Dale Street and Castle Street.

As Liverpool’s wealth increased, the richest merchants looked for room to build the large houses that would reflect their status in society. Kirkdale was one of the first areas to become a suburb, and a fashionable one at that. As the Industrial Revolution approached, the area of Kirkdale began to be developed with large houses and new roads, along with other desirable places like Toxteth Park and Mosslake Fields.

Two arrivals in the 19th century put paid to Kirkdale’s days as a semi-rural suburb. The first was the Leeds-Liverpool Canal, which brought trade and goods into north Liverpool, and immediately attracted a huge number of businesses to its terminus around Leeds Street. The second was the Liverpool & Bury (later the Lancashire & Yorkshire) Railway which opened in 1848. This not only encouraged even more industry into the area, but itself contributed to the smokey, sooty atmosphere taking over from, no doubt, the mellow airs of cut grass and cow dung.

Kirkdale’s proximity to the docks was always going to make it a great place to build houses for the thousands of casual workers who were too poor to live more than walking distance from their potetnial employers. As Liverpool’s growth reached its peak in the late Victorian period a grid-iron pattern of terraces crept across the landscape. The richer classes – from the clerks all the way up to the shipping line owners – moved further from the town centre. The clerks tended to move to Anfield and Walton while the richest built new villas in the countryside around Woolton and West Derby, or north of Bootle.

Finally, Kirkdale was incorporated into Liverpool itself in 1835, and was one of the earliest suburbs to do so.

Twentieth Century Slum Clearance

The swathes of unsuitable housing which blighted places like Kirkdale in the 20th century were the inevitable result of unscrupulous landlords throwing up as many properties as possible for the lowest cost. The bombing of the Liverpool docklands during the Second World War spilled over towards Scotland Road and the surrounding houses, and combined with ambitious slum clearances the post-war council took the opportunity to reshape the inner city.

Parts of Kirkdale became a blank canvas on which to draw in physical form the shape of Liverpool’s hoped-for resurgence. The most obvious feature, looked at on a map or from the air, is the loop road leading to the Kingsway Tunnel entrance, but many other parts of Kirkdale were reshaped too, and now the area immediately north of Liverpool city centre is dominated by large industrial units and warehousing, where there was once a mixture of dense housing, and a multitude of workplaces. Many of the roads in Kirkdale, such as once-major thoroughfares like Bevington Bush, have changed beyond all recognition: reshaped, remodelled, diverted, demolished.

The living and working conditions of Kirkdale have no doubt improved a lot since this process took place, but communities were separated when the houses came down, and nothing can quite reproduce the way of life experienced by millions of Liverpudlians in the 200 years since the area urbanised. Some people stayed in Kirkdale, and Logan Towers, one block, was the tallest prefabricated building in the world. Liverpool rivalled, or maybe even surpassed, London as a centre of high-rise living.

Sources

Books

Greaney, M., 2013, Liverpool: a landscape history, The History Press, Stroud

Picton, J, 1875, Memorials of Liverpool : historical and topographical, including a history of the Dock Estate, Longmans, Green, London

Philpott RA 1988 ‘Historic Towns of the Merseyside Area: a survey of urban settlement to c1800’ Liverpool Museum Occasional Paper, No 3, 60 pp.

Online

Kirkdale (British History Online) http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=41286

Kirkdale Gaol, Liverpool Mercury Nov 9th, 1857, Liverpool Life http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/kirkdalegaol.html

Liverpool, Lancashire http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Liverpool/

220 responses to “History of Kirkdale”

  1. […] you want to know how a residential area changed over time. In Liverpool, Everton, Toxteth and Kirkdale were the first suburbs, expanding to cater to the rich who wanted to escape the city. Later these […]

  2. O would like to know more about Back Westminster Road and the two very old cottages that are on the right hand side ?they have thick walls , and untill recently the did not have windows in the side elevation. i remember when i as a child they earth floors .
    volin

    • Martin says:

      Hi Colin,
      These cottages could be very old indeed. Looking at the First Edition Ordnance Survey map (1:10,560) they are in a still rural area. Two major buildings nearby are Kirkdale Gaol, and the Liverpool Industrial School.
      The houses which still exist on Bootle Lane are marked, and it seems very odd that a row of large houses and a row of small cottages are squeezed back to back between large fields. Perhaps the cottages were associated with the houses, for example as service buildings. Alternatively, perhaps the cottages are older, with the newer houses on Bootle Lane being built on the main road.
      Looking at the layout of the gardens, it could be that the larger houses had only short gardens (having been built later), with the rest of the land belonging to the cottages, Back Westminster Road running between cottage and garden.
      The two cottages you mention are the only ones left out of the whole row, which extended north to what is now Goodall Street. It’s amazing what survives down the centuries.

      • Robin says:

        Hello Martin,
        interesting to read your comments and yes it is amazing what survives through time. Including me. I was born in one of the dank cottages and lived for 23 years in the other and if you really want a tale about Romanies, poverty, betrayal, racism, education, violence and many other social issue’s then I have the true story that should be documented in a book.
        I remain extremely angry at my early life as a Romany and the manner in which we were treated or ill treated down “the Lane”.

        Rob.

        • Hi Rob,

          Thanks for your comments. Yes, I’m always astounded by the hardiness of many of those born into mid-20th century Liverpool poverty. I’m from a rather pampered generation by contrast, and wouldn’t last a week in those conditions!

          If you do want to write a short account of your early life experiences then I would be more than happy to post something here, fully attributed to you. I’ve done something similar before (see e.g. http://www.liverpool-landscapes.net/2011/09/toxteth-some-distant-childhood-memories/). My readers are especially interested in the landscape, how the places shaped your experience, but whatever you have to offer would be fascinating.

          Regards,
          Martin

          • Robin says:

            Hi Martin and thanks for your comments. However I am not sure if this is the best format to document the true story. It is much bigger than a few paragraphs would allow but thanks anyway.

            I need to speak with a ghost writer to pen the whole story.

            Kind regards Rob

      • Hi there, I am trying to identify what the building 67 Bankhall Street was originally. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks

    • Jeff illingworth says:

      Hi Colin I think my father used to own no 1 Back Westminster Road, I have the receipt here for it. He bought it off A David Lewis a Glazier in 1948 for 250 pound.

      regards Jeff NZ

    • Ken Crawford says:

      Hello Colin

      Only just discovered this website and read your letter. In the late 50s and early 60s, I knew a Jim Enright who lived in or just off Westminster Road. His father made (I think) hand-carts. Any relative? Jim would have been born in 1935 or 1936. Until the age of 13 in 1950, I lived on Stanley Road.

      Ken Crawford

  3. Jane says:

    Hi Martin

    I’m trying to find out what area in Kirkdale my father was born. His address on his birth certificate says 21 Sharp Street. This was in 1918.

    How would I be able to find anything out about his house and area?

    Hoping you can help

    Thanks

    • Hi Jane,

      According to some top research by Rob Ainsworth at the Liverpool History Society, Sharp Street has been redeveloped into Archer Close (Archer Street next to it has kept its name over the years). This is the place today: http://g.co/maps/sg2gj

      I hope this gets you started in your research (there are plenty of books on the area), but is there anything specific you’d like to know?

      Regards,
      Martin

      • SYLVIA POWE says:

        Hi Martin

        I have been doing a bit of research into my late mother’s family tree and found that on the 1911 census her grandmother (Amelia Andrews} had a confectioner’s shop at 137 Westminster Road. I wondered if you would be able to give me any information about this, unfortunately there are no family members (to my knowledge) that I can ask.

        Kind regards

        Sylvie

  4. Hello Martin, I lived and grew up in one of the two remaining cottages in Kirkdale you were talking about earlier, they are very old and I remember most things from when I was 5 yrs old until I left to get married, Nice to speak to you. Yvonne says:

    Hello Martin,

    I grew up from when I was 5 yrs old in one of the two remaining cottages you were talking about in Kirkdale, I remember the stone walls and floors and how cold it used to be in the winter, I was there until I left to get married.

    Regards,
    Yvonne

  5. Gill says:

    Hi, I am currently researching the Molyneux family name, and research has shown that the family were Corn Millers, employing 7 men in 1851. The census shows the address as Molineux Mill & Cottage, Bootle Lane, Kirkdale, and the 1861 census shows the address as Windmill Yard, Bootle Lane, Kirkdale.

    Do you have any information on the mills? I am assuming that they no longer exist.

    Thank you.

    • Hi Gill,

      The main reference to this windmill I’ve found is on Wikipedia, which states that it burned down in 1834, and references the book Windmill Land by Allen Clarke (1916) as its source. However, I’ve not been able to get at a copy of the book myself to check.

      Its early demise means it doesn’t appear on the Ordnance Survey maps (the earliest of these being 1851). A windmill (“Spellow Mill”) appears on some earlier maps just north of Bootle Lane (now Westminster Road), though I’m not sure that this is the same one – it’s north of the still-present Spellow Lane, and may have used Bootle Lane as its address. If anyone else has an opinion on this do respond below.

      I’ve added a scan of the Yates and Perry map of 1768 to the Historic Liverpool Facebook page to let you make up your own mind.

      I hope this gives you a start in your research on the mill.

  6. Elaine Neary says:

    Hi Jane

    You mention you are researching Sharp Street. Sharp Street was one of two side streets which ran off Sandheys Street. The other being Wilkin Street. They ran into Archer Street which ran from Walton Road, down past St Marys park and church and finished at Westminster Road, just by the baths. My family lived in Sandheys for a very long time and everybody knew each other. What was your father’s name.

  7. Elaine Neary says:

    Hi Jane = just put a little info about Sharp Street on the site. Let me know if I can help

  8. Hi,

    This link gets you to a map that shows the position of Molyneux mill, Bootle Lane.

    http://www.british-history.ac.uk/mapsheet.aspx?compid=55125&sheetid=4742&ox=0&oy=0&zm=1&czm=10&x=284&y=80

    The windmill that burnt down on Bootle Lane, 1834, was the mill that was owned by Jeremiah Shaw.

    http://archive.org/stream/historyofcornmil04bennuoft#page/198/mode/2up

    The Annals of 1843 Gores Directory says:

    Shaws windmill at Bootle entirely destroyed by fire. This mill was one of the oldest in the neighbourhood of Liverpool. There having been one on site upwards of 200 yrs.

    On the map above it shows New Mill which was the one that jeremiah Shaw built in place of the windmill that was destroyed by fire. His daughter and her husband ran New Mill on Bootle lane, after Jerry’s death in 1840.

    I do have a picture of New Mill but I am not sure how to get it on here.
    Any problems with the links let me know.

    regards Gillian

    • Hi Gillian,

      Thanks so much for those links – excellent sources which I will use more in future. It’s also good to see something describing the continuity between two parts of a building’s life (or rather, the reincarnation of a building destroyed).

      If you’d like me to put your picture (fully credited of course!) under perhaps the Landmarks section of this page then you can email it to me at martin [at] historic-liverpool.co.uk.

      Regards,
      Martin

  9. Gillian Orritt says:

    Hi Martin,

    I will try and email the picture to you later. Unfortunately the quality isn’t as good as I

    would liked as I had to use the camera on a phone to take it, because our camera was

    broken, and I had promised to send a copy to someone, hence the phone camera. We

    have not been able to replace our camera yet. The picture is also under glass in a frame.

    Do you know where online I could find a copy of the Yates and Perry Map 1768 as I am

    interested in having a look at the map to the area to the left of the map you put on

    facebook for Gill.

    Regards Gillian

  10. Jimmy says:

    My grand parents lived in Sandhey Street one in number 5 and the other in number 10 right opposite each other i remember Joe
    Armours stable many good memories of that and all the other streets around there

  11. Jimmy says:

    I grew up in Sellar Street just across Westminster Road went to ST Mary’s sunday school and church We lived at the back of the wood yard

  12. Paula Collins says:

    Hi,
    My great-great grandfather Thomas Sanderson was a saddler who operated from his home at 41 Westminster Road up until 1920. I know it’s a long shot, but would anyone have any photos of this property or nearby buildings,or does anyone else out there have any stories or links connected to him.
    Thanks
    Paula Collins

  13. Carol says:

    Hi Martin,
    Mywas listening to my mum and Uncle reminiscing about the olden days and they were trying to remember the name of the old pub which was on the corner of Kirkdale Rd/Netherfield Rd around the war times.Can you help with this I have treid researching this and asking around but with no luck.
    Thanks,
    Carol Ball.

  14. Robert Ready says:

    Recently a Photo Was Printed on The Im From Kirkdale Web Site of Fountains Road From The Corner of Westminster Road ,Showing St Johns Church on The Right and A Comment Was Left Saying That on The Left of There was A Jewish Synagog The Photo Was Dated Early 1900s Was There a Large Population of Jewish People Settled in Kirkedale at That Time.

    • Hi Robert,
      There’s been a Jewish community in Liverpool since the 1800s, and although one of the first places to see a large number of Jews was around Lime Street / Brownlow Hill, there were certainly other places where communities grew up. Kirkdale is an area of Liverpool which naturally gained a range of immigrant communities, as housing was affordable for those coming in on ships, and particularly in the early 1900s, when the greatest number of Jews arrived in the city.

      Martin

  15. Alane Beyer says:

    Hi Martin, Looks like my Great Grandfather Arthur Lewis Beyer lived at 89 Lambeth road in Kirkdale in 1901. Do you know if his home is still there ? I tried googling it and I think its still there … but who knows it could be a knewer build in its place now. Would be neat to know if anyone remembers our Beyer family. All of Arthurs children remained in England to my knowledge except my Grandfather Albert Leo Beyer. Alane.

    • Hi Alane,

      You’re right, the road is still there but all the houses currently on it are only around 30 years old. In 1901 the street was packed with terraced houses – the type with small back yards and a rear alleyway. These were demolished in the middle of the 20th century as part of the city’s ‘slum’ clearance schemes, although to what extent these were slums is often a matter of debate.

      Maps from the 1950s and 1960s show gaps in the rows of houses, with the modern street layout appearing in the 1980s.

      Martin

    • J Lewis says:

      Re LAMBETH ROAD some of the old terraces are still there.( upto about number 51).
      See them on Google Streetview

      My Greatgrandmother and family lived at no 100 in 1891, then Harcourt St around the corner in 1901 and 1911.
      In 1913 my grandmother married a guy from Crealock St, also round the corner .

  16. Alane Beyer says:

    Hi Martin, Thanks for the reply and your help.

    Thats sad to hear Great Grandpa’s house is also gone, just like Great Great Grandpa Beyer who lived in Anfield in Ash Leigh, his Villa is also gone.

    I guess with Great Grandpa being the last born out of 8 children, he was not well off living in Kirkdale, must have been a rude awakening for him coming from a home of priviledge.

    We will be in Liverpool next year so hope to find some hidden treasures still remaining. Rumford place is still there right ? Thats where GG Grandpa had a business, along with his son I believe they occupied 11 and 12 Rumford place. Ernest Beyer was a cotton merchant, so hope to find some information on him, maybe his home still exists ?? !

    Best Regards Alane

    • Hi Alane, yes Rumford Place is still there, right in the middle of town not far from the Town Hall. Hope you can find out some stuff about your ancestors There’s plenty of Beyer family history around the web, so something should come up!

      Martin

  17. Alane Beyer says:

    Hi Martin,

    Good to hear Rumford place still exists !

    Thanks for your help … Regards Alane

  18. Jane Asbury says:

    I am trying to locate where ROMEO STREET either is or would have been in Kirkdale. I am assuming as I cannot find it on the map that it no longer exists.
    Does anyone have any idea where it was…I would be most grateful for any information.

    • Hi Jane,

      Sorry, it’s taken me almost a month to reply – perhaps someone has already helped you! Romeo Street was one of a handful of streets named after Shakespeare characters which was situated near Bank Hall Station in north Liverpool. My Plan of Liverpool – North Sheet shows the location of Romeo Street as it looked in 1890. Hope this is of some help.

      Regards,
      Martin

  19. Paula Blackburn says:

    Hi Martin, my dad, Harry Blackburn was born at 66 Harebell Street, his parents lived at 66, 50 and had a shop on Stanley road that sold prams. This was in 1923, they moved to Commercial Road where they lived until my grandparents died in 1955 and 1960. Can you tell me about the history of the flower streets and the tobacco factory where my nan worked? Many thanks

    • Hi Paula,

      Can you tell me more about where the tobacco factory was? The flower streets first appear on the 1890 map, and so were part of the rapid expansion of the city at that time. I’ll see what else I can dig out about them.

      Regards,
      Martin

  20. Laurie Hardman says:

    I was born in Brunswick Square Kirkdale.
    Any information regarding the history prior to it being redeveloped would be greatly appreciated.

  21. pete says:

    Hi Martin

    I wonder if you can help. I saw a BBC program about historic buildings and it featured a large derelict tudor style building in Kirkdale.

    I have lived in North Liverpool all my life and had never heard of these – are they actually in Kirkdale?

    Thanks.

    Pete

  22. Barry Ward says:

    Hello Martin,
    My father was born in 1924 at 39 Pluto Street. I know this street no longer exists, and I presume it was demolished during or after the War. I was wondering if any photos exist of Pluto Street, or if you can give me any information about the houses, number of rooms ., when they were contsructed etc ?
    Thanks, Barry.

    • stephen vaughan says:

      hi my mum grew up in number 22 pluto street her name was margaret Pettigrew she was brought up by her grandmother we used to go back with her when we were young great memories steve vaughan

  23. I have a letter dated 18 Sept 1852 posted marked Liverpool and noted as being written at “Morley’s Point”. Do you know where this may have been located? It was written by my gggrandfather who was working there at the time. I have been unable to find any reference to this location on a map. Any help is greatly appreciated.

  24. Barbara Hughes(nee moore) says:

    Very interesting information on this area…thanks. I lived in latham st and from the house you could see B.A.British American Tobacco Factory.The huge clock was very useful indeed.

    • hi barbara my name is john i was born in latham st i lived in the houses that had an attic i could also see the bat clock. says:

      later on we moved to a house between bat and puddifers scrapyard at the top of sandhills.i think it was the only house on that side of commercial rd.

  25. Rae Lee says:

    Hi Martin (And others!),

    On behalf of my wife I wonder whether you or anyone else can help me? My wife lived in Newby street when she was younger and she attended a Doctor’s by Westminster road/Foley Street. I wonder if anyone remembers it, as she’d like to get hold of some of her old records (Or does anyone know how we’d go about getting hold of these in another way)?

    Thanks!

  26. James L. Secor says:

    Martin, I need a good history of the Kirkdale area, particularly the flower streets neighborhood. This is for a group of stories I’m writing, a tongue-in-cheek detective series. All of the crimes are social, most legally not crimes–which is my point. But I’m shy on history. I’m not Scouse. I’m a former colonist who had the double-edged sword experience of living in the flower districts in 2009-10, Snowdrop St. If a longer discussion is needed, please feel free to get to me privately. Thanks.
    jimsecor

  27. Pam says:

    Hi Martin,

    I am very interested in the houses on Westminster Road, I do actually live in one that was built in 1825 apparently they where the first to be built are you able to give me any information, or how I could find out?

    Thanks
    Pam

    • Hi Pam,

      The website Old Maps is a great place to start – you can search for Westminster Road, Liverpool in the box on the home page, and explore different eras of maps using the toolbar on the right hand side. If you let me know which specific houses you’re looking into, I might be able to have a look at some of my own library and see if there’s anything else helpful for you.

      Martin

  28. Pat Kirby ,or Wynne was my maiden name says:

    Does anyone remember the TANNERY, Orwell road?.

    i grew up just across the road from it ,North Dingle

    • Reg Towner says:

      You can see a rare picture of Kirkdale Tannery, Chancel Street and Irwins (as well as other pictures of Kirkdale) here :

      https://www.flickr.com/photos/townerassociates/14404269096/in/photostream

      comments very welcome
      RT

      • Thanks for sharing that image Reg – very interesting indeed, especially with the extra information you’ve added from local people. Definitely worth a browse. There’s some other great photos on there too, so thanks!

        Best Wishes,
        Martin

        • Reg Towner says:

          Hi Martin. Thanks for your kind comments about my pictures. I am always happy to make a contribution to excellent local interest sites such as yours.
          best
          RT

    • Martin Carr says:

      Hi I lived in orwell road and went to st johns school, I remember the tannery in orwell road and irwins, also the various stables around the area as a kid you new when the horses would be coming back from the various jobs they were on, We used to feed them carrots that we would scrounge from waterworths or rosses on Stanley road I lived in 25 0rwell road till the 1970s

    • John Harding says:

      dear pat I think i may have gone to the same school as you in 1941.My name is john Harding and our family lived in 41 North Dingle. I went to the st johns School in fountains road.Names I remember include yourself Jimmy Bingham The Gilbertsons the Robertses andthe mussells(?)There was also a paul Raymond.I also recall another Harding household living higher up the street whom i am anxious to trace.I do remember the tannery well

      • Liz sugden says:

        Hi would you have known wallaces lived 33 north dingle .1963- 70s or someone Michael king tall guy blonde hair ,trying to build up picture of my mums history she died when I was 12 went to same school and St. John’s church .lived around the area most life til twentys.family names Stanley,Barbara Ada Bernard teddy Pauline

    • Carole Seabuhr (almond) says:

      I lived in 107 North Dingle from 1949 until 1960. I went to Fonthill Road School.

  29. Maijella Walsh says:

    I would like to find photos or any information on Pluto Street. Where would it have been in todays kirkdale map?

  30. Claire Dixon says:

    Hello,
    Does anyone know of a confectioners shop in Kirkdale possibly Westminster road around 1901ish run by Catherine Merrick? I am trying to find out if it existed and where?
    Or if there was a confection shop in that area where she may have worked?

    Thank you

    Claire

    • Pat Kirby(was wynne) says:

      There ws a shop on the left hand side on Westminster road,not far from the Police Station and fire station. I can remember being in my pram when i was tiny ,mum had been for a loaf of bread and i am nibbling he corners off the loaf. can’t give any more information as i was only little.

    • Ray says:

      My mum worked in a confectioners on the corner of Medlock St and Westminster Rd in the 1930’s………it was owned by a man named Chris Delaney, and was called Delaney’s………..they owned two shops, the other was along Stanley Rd, near the New Strand, near to the Salvation Army…….hope this is of some help!

    • Lynn lucas says:

      I do actually remember the name Merrick. I thought you may have been talking about Cassidy’s. I was from Kirkdale but all my family are deceased now so Ive nobody to ask, who would remember. I do remember there being 3 sweetshops and one cakeshop on our section of Westminster Road. The one at the bottom end, opposite the Police Station (Bridewell I think it was called), I am sure that was run by two ladies. They used to sell lolly ices made in those tart tins, for 2 old pence and small ones for a penny. If that is the shop it was brilliant. I still have memories of those days. The confectioners at the other end was Cassidys and the one in the middle, I dont remember the name but it did sell stationery and cards, etc. Hope this helps

  31. clare says:

    Hiya. I currently live on delamore street. I was wondering if you could tell me a bit about the history of the street. Ive just always wondered what was here before these hpuse were built arpund a hundred years ago. Would also.be interested in what sort of people lived on these houses. All these houses also seem to be haunted too. Wpuld lile to know whos haunting us haha. Thank you for reading this and i hope to hear from ypu soon. Clare…

    • Hi Clare,

      Thanks for your query: Delamore Street is quite easy to find the date for, because on the 1890 map of Kirkdale nearby roads like Roxburgh Street and Carisbrooke Road, as well as parts of Delamore itself, are laid out but not yet fully built on. So I’d say the whole area was being built up around the end of the 19th century. The Liverpool Record Office may be able to help you narrow down the date more if you’d like, but 1885-1890 seems very likely. Before they were built, the land was covered in the Walton Nurseries (a business growing young plants and trees), which lay just outside the village of Walton-on-the-hill.

      The kind of people who were moving into these houses when they were new would have been the lower end of the middle class – the clerks and office workers who caught the tram into town every day and worked in the offices around the Pier Head, Castle Street and Dale Street. Other residents might have been small business owners such as grocers or bakers. The numbers of these people would have been increasing rapidly as Liverpool became increasingly business-oriented and wealthy in the 19th century, and as the population grew. Walton and Anfield were two other area where these people might have lived.

      The range of people who might be haunting you is potentially quite a wide one!

      Regards,
      Martin

      PS: There’s more about the changing population types of north Liverpool in my book Liverpool: a landscape history.

  32. brenda lloyd says:

    I lived in Spellow Lane in about 1948 – 1954.There was a small school nextdoor to us. We lived at no 36. I have tried to get a photo of the large houses, they have been demolished and there is just a green space now. I have seen houses all around Oxten Street, County Road etc but none of Spellow Lane. Can anyone help.

    • Helen says:

      It is a long while since your post Brenda, I am looking for similar – but 62a Spellow Lane, My Dad and family lived there 1948 to 1970’s when demolished, but we have no photo, directly opposite the Goodison Park entrance next to the Church. You may even have known each other, Damian and sister Christine? I wonder if you have tried the records office?

  33. brenda lloyd says:

    Does anyone remember the ice cream parlour called aindows. I thought it was on the corner of barlows Lane walton. but I have been told it was burtons.

    A few doors away my grandmother had a shop that sold drinks hot chocolate sasparella etc. I think young people met up there. Does anyone remember this.

    • Pat Kirby(was wynne) says:

      Regarding AINDOWS,this was on Walton Road,just before the corner ,Burtons was next to it. We would go window shopping and then go in there. I remember a smaller shop ,coming back towards town,,this could be the shop you are thinking about.

    • Elizabeth Rogers-Ross says:

      I was born in No.45 Chirkdale Street in 1936 and I can remember clearly the ice cream parlour. Before WW2 broke out it was called “Fusco’s” the surname of it’s Italian owner. When Mussolini and Hitler joined forces poor Mr. Fusco’s “parlour”was trashed by an angry mob.
      I remember seeing a placard in the broken plate glass window. It said theat he was a naturalized British subject and he had two sons fighting in the British army. Shortly after this attack on his business Mr. Fusco’s family changed their name to Aindow which, I understand, was his wife’s maiden name.
      It was a great day for local children when he was able to make his delicious ice cream again after the Victory in Europe. My older sister and I stood in long queue of children clutching basins and fruit dishes for our “victory” ice cream. It was heavenly!
      Can anyone tell me when and why 45 Chirkdale Street and the houses on each side were pulled down sometime in the 1980s? I would be most grateful.
      With kind regards from Elizabeth.

      • Hi Elizabeth,

        Thanks for your info on the ice cream parlour. There was a lot of trouble before both World Wars for German, Italian and other ‘enemy’-owned shops. Such a shame.

        The houses on Chirkdale Street were probably knocked down in advance of a housing development that got no further (money was rather an issue in the 80s on Merseyside!), or perhaps they were deemed uninhabitable, though that’s always a contested issue.

        Martin

      • Tony white says:

        Hello Elizabeth my family the whites lived at 26 chirkdale st until 1977 and moved to Westminster close on the estate off Westminster road. I still don’t know why! And the area is now just landscaped grass. It was a great street with great people.

      • Gillian Stevenson says:

        Hi Elizabeth, I just saw your post while researching about Kirkdale. My dad Alan Stevenson was born in Chirkdale street in 1936 too. His cousins lived in Ruskin St. He has many happy memories of life there, he remembers the street party at the end of the war. You were probably there too!

    • Pat Allerton says:

      Long time ago your post I know, but just came across it now. My mum knew the Aindows family who sold ice cream . She used to go there with her mum & dad on a Saturday night when they went shopping for the Sunday joint (‘cos it was sold cheap at the end of the day) and veg etc. She remembered a shop that she said was like the American ‘soda fountain’, where you would get sarsaparilla , dandelion & burdock etc then get ice cream from the ‘ice cream parlour ‘. As she was one of 8 kids they had to take turns for these visits so it was a big treat . When she grew up and married Aindows were still living along off Southport Road in Radnor Drive

  34. Eunice Jones says:

    Hi, I am researching the Vernon family history, and am trying to find any information regarding someone who my uncle, Robert Vernon worked for. It is a Mr Revell, Team owner, Foley Street. Robert Vernon was killed in action 1916/1917, just wondering if anyone might have some knowledge of what the team was, and who Mr Revell was?

  35. john burke says:

    trying to find any old boys st johns 1956 i lived in tillard st my old school mates would be 73 yrs of age now it would be interesting to hear from you out there

    john burke

    • G Whitcombe says:

      Hi John I went to St Johns school around your time,that is when I was in attendance.We lived in Sellar St, opposite the baths.I remember Tillard St well.Ballards on one corner, Roaches on the other,Mr taylor,Daybell,Burke,the huts in Latham St.

      George Whitcombe

  36. shaz says:

    can anyone tell me what stanley hospital, kirkdale, was re-named when it reopened in 1966?

  37. Mark says:

    Hi

    does anyone have any photographs of brunswick square in the 50s, 60s, 70s? My dad grew up there. He used to tie wire to the doors and climb the trees in the square and pull the wire to knock on the doors ha. I managed to find a couple of photographs of brunswick square and his ford taunus was on one of the photographs outside his house. He got very excited when he saw a fence he had built as a kid for a neighbour too! If anybody could forward me any photographs that would be great. Thanks.

  38. John Dowdall says:

    I lived inBraemar street 1951 to 1963, it was two up two down terrace house outside
    toilet and one cold water tap in the kitchen,I remember it being very cold in the
    winter,we slept 4/5 in in bed with coats over us to keep warm, the house was very
    damp and full of cockroaches,I remember we were very poor but we never went
    hungry thanks to mam (mother).
    On the corner of our street was a shop called Maggie Kelly’s run by two old ladies
    And we use to get food on tick (credit),in the middle of our street was a sweet shop
    called Koogies,
    On Saturdays we went to the pictures either the prinnie (Princess) which was 9p to
    get in or the Commadore on Stanley road which cost a shilling,the prinnie nearly
    always won.
    Anyone got any old photos

    • Hi John,

      There’s quite a few pictures (inside and outside) of Braemar Street, 1952 – exactly the time you were living there! – on the Liverpool & South West Lancs Genealogy forum. It looks, like you say yourself, a poor neighbourhood, but sounds like you had a similar childhood to many others, complete with sweetshops and the pictures. Great to hear your memories of the time. Mam’s are superstars!

      Regards,
      Martin

    • Bernie M Evans says:

      Just noticed this week the Princess is being demolished . I lived opposite in a small section of Selwyn St from 1954 to 1978 when I got married . Remember working very young for a shop called Cleanso on Wessy rd opp the Bridwell. Us Catholics went upstairs to Westminster arf school and the C of E where downstairs , opposite the Kirkdsle homes. Mr Toner ran the Birkenhead Ales shop opposite Kirkdsle Station , Louis (lady) had the sweet shop , mrs Frediani was In 13, Mavis and Brian 15, Evans in 19 (us) Phylis and Billy Khan 21 , 23 ? , 25 my Ban and Gag The Greens , Mr and Mrs Coffee 27 . Peter McGintus mum had a shop down Marsh Street .

  39. terry turner says:

    I lived in miranda rd kirkdale i remember the dowdalls.i went to school with peter tigh he lved just pass coogies shop and my relations the scullys lived on the landing just above the tighs ..my mother had a small shop on the corner of pelops street in the 50 ..60..there were ten of us but we were well looked after ..i dont know how she coped..regards ..terry

  40. Jeff illingworth says:

    This is a long shot.
    Does anyone recall a Thomas Illingworth From Tawd Street/ Barlow lane, Kirkdale,
    He used to be a cow keeper and used to deliver milk in the area.
    This would have been i think 1920s/30s
    would love to know anything as he was my Grandfather

  41. Margaret says:

    The cottages that you mention on Westminster Rd appear to have been replaced by a pub today, or am I looking in the wrong place? I hope I’m incorrect as it would be such a shame if they had been knocked down.

  42. Jen says:

    I wonder if New Mil may be behind the Old St Lawrence School, perhaps where the playground is as it has a strange hill which would be an ideal position for a windmill.

  43. Cathy Harris says:

    Am trying to track down information re the Palantine public house at 251 Walton Rd Kirkdale. My maternal grandparents were publicans there until 1926/7 when John Hawthorne Campion my mat grandfather died. Does anyone have any information?

  44. Hilary Rees says:

    Research into my family history shows my Great Grandfather Samuel Conley as being transferred from Kirkdale Industrial School in or about 1897 – this information has come from the Liverpool Records Office. But I am unable to find out what happened to and who his parents were. I may have a birth certificate for the right Samuel Conley which does show parents named, but need confirmation. Any help anyone can give would be grateful.

  45. mark philpott says:

    Hi, I was born in Newby Street in 1964. My parents and grandparents lived here on opposite sides of the road but I cant remember what numbers.
    Recently I took my partner to see tthe house I ws born in, and its completely different now.
    Long shot but does anyone have any pictures of newby street in the 60’s or any information about the road?
    Thanks,
    Mark
    Also, my dad and grandad are and were called R.A Philpott… could they b related to the Philpott RA 1988 ‘Historic Towns of the Merseyside Area: a survey of urban settlement to c1800′ Liverpool Museum Occasional Paper, No 3, 60 pp.

    • Hi Mark,

      Thanks for your comment. RA. Philpott is Dr. Rob Philpott, the Head of Field Archaeology at Liverpool Museum, and still works there down at the Albert Dock! There may be a family connection, but I don’t know of Dr. Philpott’s place of birth! 🙂 I used a couple of his books as sources for this site as well as my own book, Liverpool: a landscape history.

      Regards,
      Martin

    • Rob Philpott says:

      No, no relation at all I’m afraid!

    • David Towers says:

      I lived at 37 Salop Street, Newby Street backed on to our back entry, my brother John had a best mate named Dougie Lynch. Dougie’s house back door came out on to our back entry. I remember as kids we would play in the old stables at the bottom of Newby Street. Great days.

  46. Linda says:

    My grandparents lived in Barry St, just off Walton Road at the Astoria end. In the next street, Fountains Road, lived my great aunty and uncle. I’ve got happy memories of paying in those streets, now demolished. Does anyone know of any pictures of these streets ? I’ve only seen one from the 1953 coronation taken at the top of Barry St.
    Linda

    • Phil D says:

      Hi Linda,
      I have included a few pictures of Barry Street in a web site which have recently completed, all about Teulon Street

      http://www.teulonstreet.com

      Phil D

    • John says:

      Reply to : Linda says
      April 27, 2014 at 5:07 pm
      Linda my fathers parents (Jones) lived at 39 Barry Street as did aunt /uncle (Masterson) at 59. We have also been trying to track down photos of Barry Street. Is the coronation photo in the public domain would appreciate any information.

  47. Patrick Flanagan says:

    We are trying to find the baptismal record of Albert Flanagan. He was born in 1899 or 1900 and the family lived at 127 Rosalind St at that time. Parishes have all been mixed and joined together since 1900.
    Can you tell me how I find which parish included Rosalind St in 1899/1900

    Thank you

    Patrick

    • Hi Patrick,

      Rosalind Street was in Kirkdale parish from 1844 onwards, with St. Mary’s as the parish church. Hope this is the information you’re after.

      Regards,
      Martin

    • Jane says:

      Hi Patrick

      You might have already found your baptism record for Albert?

      but just in case I have found one:parents John – mother Margaret Greenup?

      Albert Ernest b. 1899 baptism record for St. James – this Church has not been transcribed by Ancestry – but you could try William Brown Street Library – call ahead first – just to check that they hold the records.
      This couple had a least another son called Gilbert who was b. 1900 baptized in the same church.

      Kind regards
      Jane

  48. Bill Foster says:

    I was born in Brasenose Road ‘up on the landing’, and have been trying to find a photo of it, without success. We moved, in about 1954, to Snowdrop Street, number 25. Later we moved onto Stanley Road, opposite the Gordon Institute. My Dad worked for a time at the BAT in Brasenose Road, next to or close to Brooke Bond Tea. Very interesting to read your site.

    Bill

  49. Patricia McGuire says:

    I found some old census records from 1891 that show my great great aunt living at 4c Trent Street in the Kirkdale area of Liverpool. The street no longer exists and I’d love to find an old photo of Trent Street and more info about the street and area where she lived. I also found a reference to St. Aiden which may have been the local parish at the time but I’m not sure.

    • Hi Patricia,

      Trent Street has indeed disappeared, and was one of the very small streets in Victorian Kirkdale. It was in the parish of Liverpool St. Martin in the Fields (if I’ve lined up my maps properly – it’s near the border with Kirkdale St. Marys!), but St Aiden was certainly one of the local churches, possibly just inside St. Mary’s parish. Glad you’re enjoying the site.

      Regards,
      Martin

  50. Ste Allen says:

    where exactly are these cottages near or on back westminster road??, I would also like to know whats was that building used for which is on the courner of rumney road and westminster road facing towards goodhall street.

    • Hi Ste,

      There are a couple of cottages on the north side of Back Westminster Road, numbered 4 and 6. These are the ones I’ve referred to in my earlier comments.

      The building on the corner of Rumney Road isn’t marked as anything special on the maps, and I think it would just have been a very large house. The inhabitants of this area, when the house was built, were very wealthy, and this part of Kirkdale was much sought after. If you look at the map of 1891 (below) then it makes more sense when seen amongst other houses. It’s larger than the neighbours, but developers often added bigger houses on the end of rows in order to make a little more money. It would probably be occupied by someone slightly higher up the clerical scale, or the owner of a more successful fleet of ships.

      Rumney Road, 1891, Scale 1:500

      (Click for a larger version)

      Regards,
      Martin

      • David Chaffin-Power says:

        Just noted a reference to the large house on Westminster/Rumney Road which was a Doctors surgery when I was living in Hogarth Rd. This was in the late 40’s into I think the 70’s. I stand to be corrected….

  51. Fay James says:

    Hi Martin

    I am trying to find out any information about Commercial Road in the late 1800s. My great grandfather Walter Jenkins (son of William and Margaret) was born in 1877 and records show he was from 260 Commercial Road. I would be very interested to hear any information you have of Commercial Road and the area etc from that time. I have tried looking it up but it has obviously changed very much since then!
    Many thanks.

    Fay

  52. Jodi Baines says:

    I live in a house in Dumbarton St, off Carisbrooke Rd.
    In our cellar is the original Cast Iron Aga, and copper washing point.
    I have researched the census for earlier family etc. and found that one of the previous tenant’s sadly passed away in the First World War. He was in his early twenties.
    Also our house seems to have luckily had long term occupiers, we didn’t even have house deeds for the house because the previous owners had lived there for that long, I can only trace the history back to two previous families, from the year it was built 1879.
    Any more info or photo’s would be much appreciated.

  53. Ann D says:

    My grandmother lived at 126 Westminster Road in the back of what had been a shop until she was rehoused to Huyton in the early 1960s. I remember visiting when I was little. There was a really old fashioned sweet shop on Westminster Road I think it was kept by two old ladies. My mum used to go shopping on Walton Road and always bought our Christmas turkey in Costigans. My mum worked for Delaneys before she was married.

    • Pauline says:

      just read your mail the shop you refer to with the two old ladies was coins ( not too sure of the spelling) very Victorian type of shop I was brought up in kirks tall street my father uncle and grandfather were the local,hairdressers on Westminster road

      • Thanks Pauline! It’s amazing what information we can pull together when everyone pitches in!

        Martin

      • Brian Nolan says:

        Would the name of the barbers be Hamsons or Hampsons or Hansons? Both my dad and I had our hairs cut there throughout the 1950s. I also had an after school job, age 13, working for Bert Robertson the butcher on Westminster Road near Medlock Street. I needed a schoolboy work certificate issued by the Department of Education in Sir Thomas Street. (No child labour issues back then !!) I lived in Orwell Road but moved to Kirkby in 1960.

  54. Claire Dixon says:

    Hi Ann D

    The Sweet Shop that you mention on your post do you have any more information about it. My great grandmother Catherine Merrick owned a confectioners shop on Westminster Road. Do you know the name of the shop you mentioned or the number on the road?
    I believe the shop was number 70 Westminster Road.
    I would appreciate an information.

    Thank you

    Claire.

  55. Lynn lucas says:

    Is there anybody who went to the old St John’s RC SCHOOL on Sessions Road, Liverpool in the late 50s, early 60s.

    • Martin Carr says:

      Yes I did then went on to the senior boys in latham street, I left school in1963 and went to work as a carpenter.

      • David Towers says:

        Hi Martin, I went to St Johns Lathom Street huts and left school the same year as you 1963. We might have been in the same class ? I remember a teacher we called Framie ! he had a habit of inflicting pain by pulling the hair alongside your ear. Mr Murphy, Mr Burke, Jack Daybell, Mr Taylor the headmaster who gave me 6 of the best for sagging school for one day. Some of the lads I knew Billy Miller, who lived in the buildings in Owen Road, Peter Fagan, Tony Feeney, Brian Murphy. Jack Daybell was a member of Sefton union rugby club in Leyfield Road West Derby, Jack sadly passed away last year. And if you manage to avoid the cane, there was always the chance of running up against Father Hopkins. Happy days.

    • Maureen says:

      Hi Lynn, I went to St Johns from the late fifties to the late sixties – great May prosessions !

  56. Claire Dixon says:

    Hi Lynn,

    No the shop was definatly on Westminster Road number 70, I have seen the address on the 1911 Census, but thank you for your post back.

    I wonder if anyone has any old pictures of Westminster Road from around 1910 – 1939, any at all just so I could see what it was like as Westminster Road now has new houses there.

    I would really appreciate it.

    Thanks

    Claire.

    • LYNN LUCAS says:

      Nelly HOys (Cassidy’s) was on Westminster Road, but Whitefield Lane was just around the corner. I lived right by it. My Grandma always referred to it as Nelly Hoys as that was its former name.

  57. Paula Thompson says:

    Hi
    I am looking for a pub my Grandparents had on commercial road,
    I was told it was on the dock road and it changed its name to the commercial arms?
    My mother says they had a soup kitchen which served to people queuing up many children in bare feet.
    My grandparents surname was Coburn.

  58. David Chaffin-Power (Power as was) says:

    I would like to thank Elizabeth Rogers Ross for the information about Fusco’s ice cream parlour and the reason for his change of name. It was a source of confusion for me for a long time. However it didn’t detract from my appreciation of their delicious ice cream which has never been bettered to this day – thanks Elizabeth for reminding me.
    Thanks also to you Martin and your correspondents for all the memories of old Kirkdale, too many to mention but what pictures they conjure up.
    I could go on but I want to get back to reading them again – power (forgive the pun) to your elbow.

  59. David Chaffin-Power (Power as was) says:

    Martin,
    I think the house on the corner of Rumney Rd was a doctor’s surgery – certainly in the 1940’s & 50’s when I grew up in Hogarth Rd. I believe it was owned by a Dr Godfrey and had it’s own dispensing facilities. Another doctor was named Pottinger anyone remember them??
    Again, great work Martin……

  60. Joan Crawford says:

    I was born in Howley Street in Kikdale and we left there when I was 5 – some 42 years ago now!

    • Ken Crawford says:

      Dear Joan

      I read your message with interest, wondering whether we are related. I too am a Crawford who lived in Kirkdale. My father, Francis Crawford. lived at 19 Rickman Street before he was married in1934, although I think he had at some point lived in Howley Street, which seems no longer to exist (I delivered papers there in the late 40s! – 8 & 18 – ?).

      I lived in Stanley Rd from birth (1936) until 1950. My mother owned a newsagents/tobacconists, first at No 188, until this was damaged in the May blitz of 1941, and then at No 164, about 4 doors from Lambeth Road. The blitz did a lot of damage to this area with the numerous bombed sites in Harcourt St, Crealock St and Lambeth Rd acting as football and cricket pitches for us kids. Even the building next door to us (166) was totally derelict through bomb damage.

      On the corner of Stanley Rd and Lambeth Rd was a bakery (Arthur’s). As a 5/6 year-old I often went into the basement where the bread was baked (what would Health & Safety make of this?). A very pleasant young lady called Sally worked there. The other shop I frequented was a paint/wallpaper shop half way between Lambeth Rd and Easby Rd run by a Mr Burrows. Opposite 164 was greengrocers – can’t remember the name, but the manageress was Cissie. Next door to this was a gents outfitters owned by a man called Len Heaton. A few doors away was another newsagents/tobacconists called McCabe’s, with Sally’s chip shop next door to that.

      Next to Lambeth Rd was Reading Street, a notoriously tough street, running from Stanley Rd to Commercial Rd. My mother used to say policemen went down it only in pairs – I was forbidden to go down it at all.

      I remember well Fuscoe’s and Aindow’s, the two ice-cream shops mentioned by another contributor. Getting ice-cream for the fist time after the War was very exciting.

      • Hi Ken,

        I know you were addressing this comment to Joan but just wanted to say thanks for sharing all these memories! If this site is to become a great resource for those researching their own and their family’s pasts, these recollections are just what we need!

        Martin

      • Joan Crawford says:

        Hi Ken. Sorry no Crawford is my married name. I was born in December 1966 and we left when I was 5 when everyone was rehomed in other estates. What a memory you have though!

  61. John lloyd says:

    Hi i grew up No 9 suffield road 1950-1962 i remember joe dodds horse and cart yard next to the “rec” as we called it, remember taking baths at the bath house,went to westminster road school then on to Lamberth road,both my parents were profoundly deaf mum worked at Burtons and dad travelled to S,port daily to work,dad won the vernons 62 and we all left for S/port.

  62. Joe Neary says:

    Hi all.
    I lived in Reading Street till it demolished,moving to Kirkby.I have a large collection of Kirkdale photos and the surrounding area on my flickr site here.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/exacta2a/

  63. Bob Foster says:

    Hi. I’m trying to put together enough information about my father in law, Pat’s father Joseph Killeen to make a useful trip up to the area for my FinL see where his father was born. His Grandfather, James Killeen was Irish but married a local girl, Jane Nuttall. I can see from the birth certificate that they were living in Howley Street Kirkdale when Joseph was born in 1898. I can’t find Howley street on a current map but I see that in Oct 2014 Joan Crawford says she was born there in about 47 years ago. Has it been demolished or renamed? and if so where would I look for it now?

    James was killed in a tram accident around 1900 and Joseph was taken back to grow up in rural west Ireland whilst his mum stayed in Liverpool and he lost contact with her. Is it likely that he would have been buried in Anfield Cemetery?

    Regards

    Bob

    • Hi Bob,

      Your question has led me to some really interesting research! Howley Street has been renamed to Newman Street, but all the streets around it have kept their names. You can see it with its original name on the Plan of Liverpool (North Sheet) of 1890.

      As for reason for the name change, I’m not sure. However, all the roads in that area are named after bishops, and at least some of them founded Oxford colleges. That fits in with the theme of naming roads in Bootle and Kirkdale after the colleges themselves (Merton, Exeter, Keble). It looks from his Wikipedia article that Hooley was a little controversial, being an Anglican archbishop with Catholic (though not Roman) leanings. Perhaps there is something in that, especially knowing north Liverpool’s history of the two religions. I might follow this research up and post it on the Liverpool Landscapes blog.

      It is by all means possible that James was buried in Anfield Cemetery, which had already been open for 40 years.

      I hope this is of help to you, and best of luck on your visit to Liverpool!

      Regards,
      Martin

  64. John Viggars says:

    Howley Street ran at right angles to Fountains Road. Newman Street is shown in the same position but I cannot work out if the houses there replaced Howley St or just renamed.
    Grid C5 on this map.
    http://historic-liverpool.co.uk/old-maps-of-liverpool/plan-of-liverpool-north-sheet-1890
    Mary Jane Nuttall (b 1875 St Helens?) married Patrick James Killeen (or Killon) Qtr 3 1898 at St John Kirkdale. Michael Joseph Killeen born Q4 1898 baptised St Johns seems to be registered as Joseph Michael Q1 1900. There is a James Killeen buried at Ford Cemetery Died July 1900 age 35 Plot 2889.
    Mary Jane (Killeen) married Alfred W Gidman 25/12/1902 at St Saviour Everton. There seem to be possibly 3 or 4 children from the marriage?

    • Thanks for helping with the family history, John, and your information on these streets!

      Regarding the houses, looking on Street View the houses on Howley Street look the same age as the ones in the surrounding roads, so I’d guess the road was renamed. Someone on Twitter has seen that the road changes its name to Newman on the other side of Fountains Road on the 1928 map, and must have had the full length change its name sometime between then and now.

      Martin

  65. John Viggars says:

    ps Michael Joseph & his mother appear on the 1901 Irish census together in Carrownedan, Mayo but (Mary) Jane is with her new husband and 4 (?) children on the 1911 census living at 27 Vienna St Everton

    • Jane says:

      Hi John

      I am new to this site – so please forgive this late reply.

      I have found some things out which you may or may not have.

      I have the marriage cert. of Alfred Gidman & widow Mary Jane Nuttall aka Killeen, as you mentioned in the 1911 they had 4 children, sadly Edward died, but there was Alfred, Ernest & Doris – however I have the 1939 pre war census & there is Elizabeth born 4 July 1917 she later marries someone with the surname of HOWARD on the 31 August 1948.

      Alfred Gidman is now a widower living at the same address with another family member but who was still alive in 1991 when the records were last checked, so their details are redacted due to the privacy laws.

      Alfred was born on the 1 January 1875 & his occupation in 1939 was a “jobber in the building trade”

      More importantly I have found a photograph of Alfred (Edward) Gidman aged 17 b. 1903 which I would willingly forward to you – I have also just found his baptism record.
      In 1912 George Gidman is born followed by Martha in 1915.

      Hopefully you still check in to this great site & look forward to hearing from you

      Kind regards
      Jane

      • diogenes says:

        Hi Jane, saw your comments and have tried to give more info to John. I would love to have the photo you mention of Alfred Gidman.
        Alfred Gidman b1875 had the same grandfather as myself (Edward Gidman b1809), so we are distantly related.
        best wishes

        • Jane says:

          Hi Diogenes

          Sorry for the late response – at 2 major home disasters which kept me well & truly busy!!

          Within the next few days I will go back over my notes & pull up what ever I can find.

          If there is anything or anyone else you would like me to search for – please don’t hesitate to ask & I will try my best for you.

          Hope to hear from you

          Kind regards
          Jane

    • diogenes says:

      Hi John, only recently found this lovely site, but have some more info on the Gidman/Killeen. Alfred’s grandfather was also mine, so we would be distant cousins. I belive the following is accurate; Alfred b1903 went to the ASA and died in 1989. George b1912 also went to the USA.
      all the best to you

  66. Heather Butler says:

    Hi there, am undertaking some genealogical research for someone whose grandmother, Marie Edwards lived in Wolsey Street for a time and also worked for an ‘American family’ in Fishguard Street, probably some time in the mid to late 1920’s. Any thoughts, thanks.

  67. ray hind says:

    I left liverpool / kirkdale in 1971, reading some of the comment and replies it’s as if I am reliving my child hood and roots, being back lots of memories

  68. David Peate says:

    What a surprise to see a mention of Illingworths of Tawd Street. I remember the cows in the shipping and the horses stabled in Westminster Road. The feed was obtained from the grass cuttings in Anfield cemetery and from the discarded leaves of cabbages, etc., in the Haymarket in Great Homer Street. My brother, Edward, used to work there in the 1940s/1950s and, whilst a schoolboy, I used to help there from time to time.

  69. Phil Lewis says:

    I have just stumbled on this site, it has brought many childhood memories back and I recognise one or two names.My parents Mabel and Tom ran the shop at the corner of Wykeham st and Orwell rd in the 1960/70’s. I was born in Briar st, the youngest of four children and attended St John’s. As a kid I loved to listen to the old tales from my grandmother, my parents and older siblings. My dad drank in the Orwell pub in the days when Tom Cross was the manager, apparently he refused to serve women in the bar and one small lounge was called the ‘Blocker’ parlour, (Blocker referring to the bowler hats that the gentlemen wore,perhaps that’s where the saying ‘knock your block off’ came from?)so Im assuming local businessmen of the time must have frequented it.Growing up in the 50’s and 60’s, it was a rough and ready area,with a few bad apples, but in the main, most people were highly respectable, with a great sense of family and community values. Irreplaceable memories of a happy childhood.

    • Thanks, Phil, great to hear those memories! I always love to hear about characters like that landlord. It seems people really enjoyed growing up in the 50s and 60s, even if they knew that life was a little tougher back then. I think it made character!

      Martin

      • Phil Lewis says:

        Hi Martin,
        Thanks for your reply. I agree entirely that tougher times created stronger more colourful characters.My grandmother was an incredible person, a walking history book no less. She was born in 1877 and lived to be 100 years old.Her husband, my grandfather, was gassed and died in the First World War, leaving her to bring up nine children alone,and that was in the days before social security! Her amazing stories were always told in a matter of fact manner. I would sit enthralled when she recalled emigrating to America as a little girl with her Irish mother and Danish seafarer father where she actually saw Buffalo Bill’s Wild West Show. Her father couldn’t settle there and so they returned to Liverpool. She lived most of her life at 1a Lambeth Rd opposite Tillotsons factory. Everybody in the neighbourhood knew her as Ma Lewis. A truly remarkable woman.

        • What a story! I always admire the courage to move overseas in hope of a better life, but what a fighting family to decide to come back again! They all must have had many stories.

        • Terry turner says:

          Hi Phil I was a mate of your brother Tommy we both worked in tillitsons he married Elsie and I married Evelyn her mate ..I used to go to your nans on the corner of Lambeth rd with Tommy ..and to your house in briar St ..I remember taking my guitar and your dad singing bing Crosby songs . This was in the late 1950 early 60 s ..I think you had an older brother Edward and a sister .. You were the youngest ..happy days all the best terry

  70. Tony Rafferty says:

    I have just found this site by accident and it is brilliant. I was born in Fonthill House, Owen Rd. The area was known as the buildings and between each block there was an area known as the Horse Shoe were we used to play tweny a side footy. Fantastic, the ages would vary from 6 to 18 year olds but we all got stuck in, great days. i also went to st Johns in fountains Rd and then on to English Martyrs untill me dad moved us all over the water to ellesmere port. This has brought back great memories of friends gone by, Mike walker, Jay Salter, Sonny & Charlie Marshall and Dave Keaton. Great times great memorie.

    • Hi Tony,

      Glad you like the site! I too remember massive footy games in the park, but I don’t think we hit 20 a side! Great to hear about your memories.

      Martin

    • LYNN LUCAS says:

      Hi, I remember some of those names from my infants class at St John’s before boys were separated from girls. My teacher was Miss Brunning.Does anyone else remember St Johns infants

    • LYNN LUCAS says:

      Hi, I remember some of those names from my infants class at St John’s before boys were separated from girls. My teacher was Miss Brunning.

  71. May Gore nee Moran says:

    Only just came across this site February 2016. It brought back so many memories of my youth in Kirkdale. I have recognised several names already. I grew up in Suffield Road, Kirkdale, and attended St. John’s and Everton Valley. Since 1961 I have lived in New Zealand. I remember both Mary Fusco and Theresa Aindow at the Valley. To a John Harding, North Dingle, was it your sister, Dorothy, who also went there? You mentioned Paul Raymond – his older brother George has been a life-long friend who sadly passed away in 2015. John Lloyd at No. 9 Suffield, I remember your parents and when you were born! In the early 50’s I met a very old man who lived in the Kirkdale Homes – he was a survivor of the Titanic disaster! We all played out on The Top and in the Rec ! Of course, our generation remembers the War, my Dad served in the Royal Engineers and was in the D Day landings. So many friends’ Dads never returned, quite a few torpedoed in the Atlantic by the U Boats. The happy VE Day party in our street when it was all over. Thanks for sharing all the memories folks.

    • Martin says:

      Hi Mary,

      Thanks for sharing your memories here too. I hope it’s helped you reconnect with a few old faces. It’s amazing what the city went through socially in the war.

      Martin

  72. Bill Graham says:

    I was born in Rockley Street in 1948, this was my grandparents home. My parents moved away when I was about 5.
    I have lost trace of my relatives I had an uncle Ernie Mac who was my grandmothers brother

    • Jane says:

      Hi Bill

      I just came across this website today, & I have left a message to anyone who would like assistance in researching their roots.

      I have just found John & Amelia Graham living at no: 52 Rockley Street, John worked as Dock Gate Man for MD&HB, b.21 May 1892 & Amelia b.16 April 1898.
      There are at least 3 other people living in this household – but due to the 100 yr privacy act their details have been redacted.
      Are these people your grandparents?

      I’m unsure as to how I can send you the actual image (possibly the web host can advise)

      Kind regards
      Jane

      • Martin says:

        Hi Jane,

        Thanks so much for helping some of my website’s visitors to find their ancestors! I’ve told Bill that I can pass on his email address to you if he gives me permission. Also, I can pass on your email address to him if you’d like. I’ll email it to him rather than publish it on this site.

        Martin

        • Jane says:

          Hi Martin

          What a great site – please feel free to give my email to Bill – hopefully I can help him trace his roots.

          And the offer goes for anyone one else – just bear in mind the 100 year privacy act regarding census records, as for Merchant Navy records they stop at 1915.

          I’m not calling myself a professional researcher as I do not charge for what I do – I just like passing it on

          Look forward to hearing from Bill

          Kindest regards
          Jane

          • diogenes says:

            Hi Jane, I saw that you were offering help on family history and wondered if you could help me.
            My 3x greatgrandfather was Peter Guy b1779 in Prescot, parents John & Anne. He ended up in Liverpool and died 1853. I have been unable to find the birth of his father John, but from his death about 1820 it would have been about 1750. I believe he came to Liverpool from Prescot, but cannot find how he might be connected to Guys already living there. Hope you can help.
            Best wishes

  73. Bill Graham says:

    Hi Jane
    Thank you so much, these were my grandparents. It would be great to get the image. I had no dates of birth etc but can now start a proper search. Amelia was known as Minnie and Was from Ireland. Thanks again

    • Martin says:

      Hi Bill,

      It’s really great to see you’re getting help with your ancestors! Jane has mentioned wanting to send an image to you, so if you give me permission I can pass on your email address to her. I won’t publish it on this website (for your privacy and security) – I’ll email her directly.

      Martin

      • Bill Graham says:

        Hi Martin,

        thanks, this is a great page and is helping me understand my past.
        It would be great if you could pass my details onto Jane so she can send me the image

        Regards Bill

  74. Bill Graham says:

    Martin,
    That would be good thank you

    Regards Bill

  75. John Douglas says:

    Hi Heard an interesting claim on Radio Merseyside a couple of days ago. Apparently Newby Street in Walton is the only street/road in the City to have its house numbers the other way around to the norm, ie from the town hall. Any info?

  76. Ken Fargher says:

    I have a grandfather who was born in Lemon Street, Kirkdale. In the late 1880s. Does anyone have any interesting photos or information?

    • Jane says:

      Hi Ken

      If you can give me a little bit more info on your Grandfather re: full name, any details re: parents & I’ll go digging for you

      Kind regards
      Jane

      • Ken says:

        Wow Jane. Thank you.

        The Entry of Birth is 7th April 1878. Born at 58 Lemon Street, Kirkdale. Father was Thomas Fargher, mother was Sarah Ann Fargher nee Ryley.

        Boy, William Fargher

        He had a son, Thomas WILLIAM Fargher, born in Johannesburg by a second wife( first died of consumption and we know little if nothing about her). 14 Nov 1922.

        I see little is left of Lemon Street and I believe due to WW2. Would love to know if anyone has photos of the street and around the time of 1878.

        Thank you

        • Jane says:

          Hi Ken

          When I commence my search, I go back as far as I can to the beginning – so I’ve started with Thomas’s parents:- Thomas & Eleanor who originated from the Isle of Man

          Thomas Farghar was baptized 12 February 1809 :- parents Clucas Fargher & Isabella Mylchreest

          They married 6 June 1807

          they were b. abt 1785 they had at least 3 other children.
          They were farmers & in 1841 Thomas is also a Farmer.

          On 18 July 1839 Thomas married Susannah Christian she is the mother to John Fargher.

          Susannah obviously died & Thomas married Eleanor? this event possibly happened in Liverpool as there are least 8 children born starting with Thomas in 1842, then Eleanor in 1843, William Clucas in 1844, Robert in 1845 & Elizabeth in 1846, Jane in 1851, Charles in 1853, George in 1855

          I have the marriage cert. of Thomas to Sarah Ann Ryley, but I have his enlistment in to the Boiler maker’s Union in 1876

          I have just found a “later” Thomas traveling on the Carmania 4 May 1912, occupation SMITH leaving Liverpool bound for New York.

          I also have found William’s brother Richard b. in 1876 living with wife Lilian & son Richard living at 273 Lower Breck Road.

          I could look for more but if you can tell me as to what you have already then I can concentrate looking in other areas.

          If you have non of the aforementioned, then have Martin pass on my direct email & I’ll gladly forward the images to you.

          Look forward to hearing from you
          Kind regards
          Jane

  77. Bill Graham says:

    Hi Jane, I would love a copy of your document and have asked Martin to forward you my email address.
    Regards Bill

    • Jane says:

      Hi Bill

      I’m like that song “I’m still waiting” hopefully you’ll get your images soon – if there’s anything else I can help with – please don’t hesitate

      Look forward to hearing from you & would just like to add – Martin “You’re a great host for doing what you do!!!

      Regards
      Jane

      • Martin says:

        Hi Jane,

        Thank you for your kind comment! I love doing this website, and am so glad you’re able to add your own knowledge in here too!

        Martin

  78. Bill Graham says:

    Thanks Jane. I agree, Martin is doing a great job.

  79. Bill Graham says:

    Hi Martin, site goes from strength to strength. Please pass my email to Jane. Regards Bill

  80. Jane H says:

    Hi – I just found this site as my cousin is visiting from the USA and we are trying to piece together a very fragmented family history. We Share the same Great Gradparents, John Pearse and anna Wharitty pearse who moved to Kirkdale in the late 1800’s and who had 10 or more children. My cousins grandma was Agnes Pearse who married a John Gray, and then when he died in 1915 an Edward Pugh, and my Grandfather was John (Jack) Pearse who married a Margaret ann hughes. they lived in Fonthill Road and the whole pearse family was in some way connected with the Merchant Navy. The Pearse children were Richard, Francis, Patrick, Agnes, Sissy, Honor, Dominic, John, Joseph, Margaret and possibly others.

    Does anyone know any of these names?

    Thanks, and will just go through and have a good read!!

    Jane

    • Jane says:

      Hi Jane

      I’m also Jane & I have possibly found all your Pearse boys, with photographs & birth records for their time spent with the Merchant Navy.

      I would love to forward the images to you – but I think we have to go through our web host, the incredible Martin.

      So without further ado – Martin – you have my permission to forward my email to Jane.

      Look forward to hearing from you

      Kind regards
      Jane

    • Jane says:

      Hi Jane

      In no particular order

      I’ve just discovered that John – 1880, Francis – 1882, Agnes 1885, Joseph – 1887 & **Margaret – 1889**, Dominic – 1891, Richard – 1878 were baptized at St. Alphonsus RC Church

      In St. Augustine’s RC Church the following children were baptized:- Ann Maria – 1873,who married Richard Tuer in 1915 & then later emigrated to the United States and received her citizenship in 1941.

      Honora – 1876, Patrick – 1875 was baptized in St. Augustine’s RC Church

      ** There was another Margaret b. & Baptized at St. John’s RC Church in 1895

      The only one that is missing (yet) is Sissy however I have all the baptism images of the aforementioned.
      And the marriage of Ann Maria

      Please let me know if you would like them?

      Kind regards
      Jane

  81. Jane says:

    Hi Martin

    It seems like everyone’s gone quiet?

    Is Liverpool basking in glorious sunshine – we’ve had high 70’s already & no snow – thank the Lord!!

    Hope to hear from Bill soon

    Kind regards
    Jane

    • Bill Graham says:

      Hi Jane, I still have not recieved a reply. I have asked Martin to give you my email. Could you please see if he has heard from me. Can you let me know if you get this mail dated 14/04/16.
      Regards Bill

      • Jane says:

        Hi Bill

        I check the site nearly every day – so I think Martin’s on Crosby beach basking in 80 degree’s of sunshine – only joking!

        Hope all’s well Martin & I’m sure whatever the delay – we’ll get there in the end.

        If there’s anything else Bill I can help you with – just let me know

        Kind regards to all
        Jane

        • Martin says:

          Hi Jane,

          I sent you an email this morning – has it arrived? Perhaps it got into your spam folder? Sorry, must be dodgy wifi with all these Gormley statues around here! 😉

          Martin

          • Jane says:

            Hi Martin

            Thanks Martin – it must be the 8000 miles between us – never gave it a thought to check that.
            There you are stuck in the middle with all the other junk!! which I never knew I had.

            Hopefully Jane H will get in touch as I have the photo’s of all of her Pearse siblings, it seems all but a few of the family emigrated to the States.
            And also found out that the missing Sissy was the nick name for Ann Maria.

            Glad to know all’s well in the pool

            Kind regards
            Jane

  82. Bill Graham says:

    Thanks to this website and additional help from Martin and Jane I am now able to start researching my family history.
    Imagine the shock of finding out that I am either a Graham or a
    Hollerhead or in fact a Graham – Hollerhead. Jane very quickly established the spelling of my grandmothers maiden name as McGrae. I know I had an uncle Ernie and he was known as Ernie Mack, I wonder what his relationship to my grandmother was as he was born a couple of years before my father.
    Once again a big hanks to Jane for the rsearch she did for me and to Martin for a great site.

    • Martin says:

      Thanks Bill,

      Great to hear this tale of your family history research, and so glad this site linked you up with Jane. I hope others find the site as useful as you have.

      Martin

  83. Joseph Hollerhead says:

    What a website all, thank you so much for this. Bill, I am currently searching my family tree and I am a Hollerhead. We have lived in and around the Kirkdale/Walton areas since the 1950’s.

    I would love to connect with you.

    Cheers,

    Joe

  84. Bill Graham says:

    Hi Joe, I would love to get in touch. My family lived in the same areas until the early sixties. There is some confusion over the surname which I am trying to sort at out at present, but unfortunately all the close family are deceased.
    I will ask MARTIN to pass on my email to you.

  85. Ann says:

    Can anyone help or give me any information/photos about Aldams Grove (off Westminister road, Kirkdale) I lived there from the early 70’s until all the houses were demolished in the 80’s I’ve been on loads of sites and groups trying to find something. Everywhere around the grove is mentioned (nixons factory) but that’s all.

  86. AnnmarieH says:

    Hi Martin, can you or anybody give me any information or photos of Aldams Grove (off Westminister Road) I lived there as a child from the late 60’s until the houses were demolished in the 80’s. I’ve found info about surrounding area (nixons factory) etc but that’s all Thanks

    • Martin says:

      Hi Annemarie,

      Like you, I can’t find anything on the street itself. Is it just general information you need, or would you like to know something specific?

      Regards,
      Martin

  87. Jacqui says:

    Hello
    According to the 1851 census I have just received, my 3 x great grandparents Gordon and Ann GRANT and their family and servants lived at 7 Blackfield Terrace, Kirkdale. Can you tell me if there would be any existing records, photos or information around this. Gordon J J Grant was a tobacco broker.

  88. Joan griffiths says:

    Can anyone remember the name of the bakery in Westminster road my mother (Agnes whitehead) worked there from 1931-1942

  89. D Owens says:

    Hi Martin. Great site.
    I was born on Barlow Lane in 1965 and lived there until 1976 when we were cleared and the houses later demolished.
    We lived in no.30 and I remember Wally Dean’s glaziers shop at one end, and Burtons at the other. Been trying to remember the name of the little chippy on the same side as my old school St Lawrence?
    The shop facing Lulu’s pub was owned by Reggie and Margaret (Powell?)
    Does anybody have information on photographs showing “our” side of the street, what was the even numbers? All pictures seem to show the pub side,the houses still remain, but cannot find any of our old Victorian ones with the steps up to the doors.
    Colourful was a good word for the area in those days! I remember a huge commotion one Saturday night as someone broke Burtons window and rode off on a motorcycle attempting to keep the fully suited and booted window dummy on the back as a very unsteady pillion passenger!
    Dave.

  90. Colin Beet says:

    At the end of Spellow Lane, near the ‘Royal Oak’ public house there is a busy road junction (Walton Road, Barlow Lane, Carisbrooke Road, County Road and Spellow Lane). In 1940 there was an underground public toilet in the middle of this junction which was being used as a shelter from the bombing. On the evening of 21st December 1940 the toilets, which were packed at the time, received a direct hit killing most of the occupants. Only five bodies could be identified. Others were removed to the mortuary and later buried in a communal grave. There are accounts which suggest that the bomb crater was filled in before all the bodies could be recovered.

    It is thought that some years later a memorial plaque was placed on the pavement outside Burtons at the junction of Walton Road and Barlow Lane. This has still to be confirmed.

    Any comment or additional information about this incident would be greatly appreciated

    • Martin says:

      Hi Colin,

      I’ve seen someone else on another forum asking about the same issue, and a fellow contributor pointed out that the bodies were always recovered, and any destroyed buildings were made safe. This would be for general safety reasons, but it would also make recovery of the bodies easier. Apparently stories like this one, of bodies left behind, were common in those days! The shelter is marked on the 1949-54 map, so no doubt the story of the direct hit is all too true.

      Martin

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