I will try and email the picture to you later. Unfortunately the quality isn’t as good as I

would liked as I had to use the camera on a phone to take it, because our camera was

broken, and I had promised to send a copy to someone, hence the phone camera. We

have not been able to replace our camera yet. The picture is also under glass in a frame.

Do you know where online I could find a copy of the Yates and Perry Map 1768 as I am

interested in having a look at the map to the area to the left of the map you put on

facebook for Gill.

Regards Gillian

Thanks so much for those links – excellent sources which I will use more in future. It’s also good to see something describing the continuity between two parts of a building’s life (or rather, the reincarnation of a building destroyed).

If you’d like me to put your picture (fully credited of course!) under perhaps the Landmarks section of this page then you can email it to me at martin [at] historic-liverpool.co.uk.

Regards,
Martin

This link gets you to a map that shows the position of Molyneux mill, Bootle Lane.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/mapsheet.aspx?compid=55125&sheetid=4742&ox=0&oy=0&zm=1&czm=10&x=284&y=80

The windmill that burnt down on Bootle Lane, 1834, was the mill that was owned by Jeremiah Shaw.

http://archive.org/stream/historyofcornmil04bennuoft#page/198/mode/2up

The Annals of 1843 Gores Directory says:

Shaws windmill at Bootle entirely destroyed by fire. This mill was one of the oldest in the neighbourhood of Liverpool. There having been one on site upwards of 200 yrs.

On the map above it shows New Mill which was the one that jeremiah Shaw built in place of the windmill that was destroyed by fire. His daughter and her husband ran New Mill on Bootle lane, after Jerry’s death in 1840.

I do have a picture of New Mill but I am not sure how to get it on here.
Any problems with the links let me know.

regards Gillian

I’ve passed along your query to the Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/historicliverpool) but I’ve also come across this one on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30593522@N05/3507423017/ It’s Erskine Street in 1970, so may be a bit later than you were hoping for, but something that may be useful to you.

Regards,
Martin

I enjoy these maps !

terry m.

Thanks for your comments. Yes, the ingenuity, not to mention the work rate, of the Victorians never ceases to amaze me. I think the fact that Edge Hill is around a station just spurred them on even more at the height of the Industrial Revolution, when Liverpool wanted to be the transport hub of Britain.

As to the discrepancy between the date when your road was built, this could either be because my publication date is slightly out, or that the mapmaker knew what was being built in that area, and/or that the record for when your road was built counts the date at which all buildings were complete, increasing the chances that the mapmaker could see the new road plans several years before, perhaps when they’re being laid out.

I’ve seen some history books from the period which take great pleasure in detailing all the soon-to-be-built roads, and mapmakers were keen to be at the cutting edge, sometimes risking looking foolish if building projects didn’t come to fruition.

Hope you enjoy the site!

Regards,
Martin

I definitely think the Vikings had a bit of a foothold in the region (especially the Wirral) in the 8th century, which shows itself in the genes of current inhabitants, which I think is great! The place name evidence shows they existed on the north/east bank of the Mersey too. Toxteth, Croxteth and Kirkby all show Viking presence deep into Lancashire, after having landed in Wirral originally.

Stephen Harding’s book Viking Mersey is a great source for place-name evidence showing where Vikings settled in a Saxon country.

While Historic Liverpool doesn’t cover Kirkby yet, there are a lot of good resources elsewhere on the web, such as a timeline, some reminisences on the Kirkby Times site and a fact file by the Arch group. If there are any more specific things you’d like to know, do say.

Regards,
Martin

I’m not sure Paul Booth’s talks (Wednesday, 2-4pm) are still running. This page seems to suggest they finished at the end of March.

I might be mistaken, so if there are other talks by him do let me know.

Martin

You mention you are researching Sharp Street. Sharp Street was one of two side streets which ran off Sandheys Street. The other being Wilkin Street. They ran into Archer Street which ran from Walton Road, down past St Marys park and church and finished at Westminster Road, just by the baths. My family lived in Sandheys for a very long time and everybody knew each other. What was your father’s name.

While it’s hard to pin down exact reasons why certain roads and areas were redeveloped, large areas of Everton (and elsewhere in the city) were cleared because the housing quality was deemed too low. While I’m aware that these decisions were not always agreed with, Liverpool in the 1960s was caught up in clearance fever after the Second World War destroyed many old buildings and presented an opportunity to redesign the whole city like never before. Great Homer Street, Scotland Road and the areas right over to Breckfield Road were redeveloped several times in the 20th century, in trying to deal with a housing problem (of quality and quantity). It’s likely that your family’s shop fell in an area destined for widespread redevelopment.

You may (rightly) believe that your own house was in perfectly good condition, and many were, but these massive schemes were too ambitious to worry about such details. Many of my own ancestors homes in Everton (Back Roscommon Street) and Toxteth disappeared beneath both road widening and slum clearance, even though in some cases I believe the quality of houses was not consistently bad enough to warrant total destruction. The market was probably part of this, in all a giant redesign of Everton.

You may find more information about the reasons for, and impacts of, the clearance of this area in Ken Rogers’ very popular book The Lost Tribe of Everton and Scottie Road.

I’d be really interested to read the book you’re writing. Is this something you’ll be publishing widely?

Martin

There are a handful of photos of this area on the Orange Pages website. I think the blocks you are looking for are in the left hand photo on the 7th line down.

Martin

Thanks for your comment. Do you have a link to the L5 site? Would love to see those photos you mention.

Martin

Thanks so much for your kind comments! I love doing this, so am glad it’s helpful to you.

Martin

The main reference to this windmill I’ve found is on Wikipedia, which states that it burned down in 1834, and references the book Windmill Land by Allen Clarke (1916) as its source. However, I’ve not been able to get at a copy of the book myself to check.

Its early demise means it doesn’t appear on the Ordnance Survey maps (the earliest of these being 1851). A windmill (“Spellow Mill”) appears on some earlier maps just north of Bootle Lane (now Westminster Road), though I’m not sure that this is the same one – it’s north of the still-present Spellow Lane, and may have used Bootle Lane as its address. If anyone else has an opinion on this do respond below.

I’ve added a scan of the Yates and Perry map of 1768 to the Historic Liverpool Facebook page to let you make up your own mind.

I hope this gives you a start in your research on the mill.

Sand and Sea,
Sefton’s Coastal Heritage:
Archaeology, History and Environment of a Landscape in North West England.
Eds. Jennifer M. Lewis & Jennifer E. Stannistreet

See, Chapter 3, pp. 28-43
Gordon Roberts and Annie Worsley: Evidence of human activity in Mid-Holocene coastal palaeoenvironments of Formby, North West Enland.
(The photographs could have been reproduced better!)

Do you have any information on the mills? I am assuming that they no longer exist.

Thank you.

Regards,
Martin

Childwall Valley Road and Bentham Drive were both built in the 1930s (for a photo of Childwall V R being built in 1931 see http://www.mersey-gateway.org/server.php?show=conMediaFile.25355), and the houses on Bentham Drive would have been built soon after. These developments were intended to serve the needs of the booming population of Liverpool between the World Wars.

Regards,
Martin

Yes, that link’s not right. It might have meant to be http://www.bootlehistory.com/bootle-past.htm. They have a forum on that website, and a contact page here: http://www.bootlehistory.com/bootle-contact.htm. Maybe you’ll have some luck contacting him there.

Regards,
Martin

I grew up from when I was 5 yrs old in one of the two remaining cottages you were talking about in Kirkdale, I remember the stone walls and floors and how cold it used to be in the winter, I was there until I left to get married.

Regards,
Yvonne

DOI: 10.1080/10420940802470730
Publication Frequency: 4 issues per year
Published in: Ichnos, Volume 16, Issue 1 & 2 January 2009 , pages 33 – 48

According to some top research by Rob Ainsworth at the Liverpool History Society, Sharp Street has been redeveloped into Archer Close (Archer Street next to it has kept its name over the years). This is the place today: http://g.co/maps/sg2gj

I hope this gets you started in your research (there are plenty of books on the area), but is there anything specific you’d like to know?

Regards,
Martin

Cochrane Street was in a huge area of dense ‘grid-iron’ pattern streets from the 19th Century up until the mid 20th Century. The small portion left of this street now runs through Everton Park, with just the chapel left. The 1967 Ordnance Survey map shows the street still in existence (including the chapel) and is marked with grey areas denoting buildings. So I’d say it did still have houses on in 1966, although this was a period of rapid change, and so would welcome any eye witness accounts!

See a map extract from Old-Maps.co.uk posted on the Historic Liverpool Facebook page.

I’m trying to find out what area in Kirkdale my father was born. His address on his birth certificate says 21 Sharp Street. This was in 1918.

How would I be able to find anything out about his house and area?

Hoping you can help

Thanks

thanks
sharon

If Hall Lane is the new boundary, then it’s certainly changed from its historic shape. A good source for the parish boundary is on http://maps.familysearch.org/. Here you can click through a map of Lancashire, then select the option to list all the parishes. This will take you to a map. The parish of Walton-on-the-Hill stretches further north than Hall Lane. Also, on my own site you can see the rough outline of the old townships (which are generally larger than parishes). Again, the historic township stretches further north than Hall Lane. See the Map of Walton Township.

I’m not sure exactly if or when the boundaries changed, as these areas are historical. I thought perhaps the Boundary Commission might be making changes, but their map of Liverpool North does not have a boundary at Hall Lane either (though it’s not far off, near Aintree Rail Station). See http://rr-bce-static.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Liverpool-North-BC.pdf?9d7bd4 for a PDF of a map of the local authority and wards. Either way, the Commission’s decisions are not yet final (they’ll be published in March).

Hope this is of some help.
Martin

Having had a look around, I see from this discussion (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,239503.msg1323962.html#msg1323962) that there are photographs of the home in Liverpool Record Office. The discussion mentions that one of the bosses was a Thomas Clingan.

For general information on workhouses, you can’t do much better than http://www.workhouses.org.uk/. There are links to further resources. I think these should answer most of your questions which might apply to all workhouses (such as conditions, funding and who went there).

Regards,
Martin

Well, it’s definitely worth keeping an eye on eBay, as there are a couple on there at the moment, though if your date range is strictly 69-70 its hard to tell if they’re exactly what you want (Geographia maps don’t seem to have the dates on them). Have you tried the National Archives in Kew, London? I see from their website (archives.gov.uk) that they have some Geographia maps, and though I can’t find Liverpool ones, I don’t trust my web searching skills enough to know whether I’ve missed something.

There’s also Abebooks.co.uk (e.g. http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?kn=geographia+map+liverpool&sts=t&x=0&y=0), owned by Amazon though specializing in antiquarian books. It definitely has Liverpool Geographia maps of Liverpool, but not necessarily of your dates at the time of writing (mostly again due to the lack of dates printed on the map).

I think your best bet is to keep checking eBay and Abebooks, although try the Kew Archives too.

I have been trying for several years to get hold of a copy of a Liverpool A-Z, specifically dating from 1969-1970, if one was ever published. If not a Geographia map of the same date will do.

I have already tried:

Liverpool Central Library
The A-Z Company
The Geographia Maps company
The national archives in Swindon
EBay

Do you know where I might be able to obtain, or see one?

Maps are probably a good first port of call, so http://old-maps.co.uk is a good place to start for old Ordnance Survey maps. You can search for the road name itself, and then the site gives you a list of maps on the right hand side which cover the area from 1850 onwards. You can buy copies of the maps from Old Maps, but you can also view them at Record Offices (Liverpool and Lancashire both cover the area).

There’s a comprehensive coverage of researching the history of buildings (including residential ones) at http://www.buildinghistory.org/. For listed buildings, try English Heritage’s Images of England (http://imagesofengland.org.uk) or their Heritage List (http://list.english-heritage.org.uk/)

Hope this starts you off on your research, but if there’s something specific I’ve not covered, do let me know.

Regards,
Martin

I’ve posted a link to your question on the Historic Liverpool Facebook page to see if anyone there can shed any light on the area.

If you’re after maps, have you tried http://old-maps.co.uk? Type in the co-ords boxes: 336784 and 389190 respectively, and press go. Click on the small maps in the right hand column to choose your dates. The fourth one down (1891 Town Plan) gives good coverage and detail of your area. Click on the main map once to zoom in.

For photographs, it might be best to try Googling for photos of Lodge Lane, as this is the closest main route to your area of interest. However, the Toxteth riots of 1981 mean there are a lot of images from that period. There’s one evocative image of children in Lodge Lane on the Echo website: http://bit.ly/yu4pVQ.

Hope this info helps you get started.
Regards,
Martin

I’ve posted a link to your question on the Historic Liverpool Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Historic-Liverpool/232165420148779) to see if anyone else there remembers the back yard barber.

Regards,
Martin

I’m trying to find some information about the history of buildings/properties in Fox Street Everton but not having much luck. I’m douing a resarch project for my university course.

I appreciate if you know how to access them.

Many Thaks
Raif

There’s a really useful population table on Visions of Britain for Toxteth here: http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/data_cube_page.jsp?data_theme=T_POP&data_cube=N_TOT_POP&u_id=10583664&c_id=&add=N although it only goes from 1801 up to 1901. I’ve not been able to find more recent statistics.

The Vision of Britain site has a lot of statistics, but make sure you’re looking at comparable figures, as this page http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_units.jsp?p_id=1292 has a lot of different definitions of ‘Toxtheth Park’!

Good luck with your research,
Martin

I’ve not been able to find a reference to Linacre Park, although as you say there are a couple of roads around there with the name in.

The village of Linacre once stood on its own, where Linacre Lane and Stanley Road now join. There was a Linacre House near the junction, so it may be that Linacre Park was a colloquial name for the house and its grounds, even though it’s not marked on the map.

It’s funny you should ask this now, as I’ve just read a book about Anfield and Breckfield (Ordinary Landscapes, Special Places, by Adam Menuge) which mentions Ash Leigh (which was technically in Anfield).

Ash Leigh was a cul-de-sac which had five very large semi-detached villas on it, plus a couple of other large houses. These were inhabited by some of the wealthier Liverpudlians in the 19th century (In the 1851 census three of the inhabitants were Polish, German and Prussian merchants respectively), so perhaps your Great Grandfather was a business owner or merchant?

You can see the location of Ash Leigh on Google Maps: http://bit.ly/pXrdPX – draw an imaginary line between the end of Oban Road on the right and the right hand corner of Oakfield (the square road on the left).

To see old maps of the area, go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk, find the ‘coords’ boxes on the home page, and type 336715 in the first and 392705 in the second, then press ‘Go’.

There is a list of maps down the right hand side – click on the second one down and wait for it to load a larger version in the main pane, and then click on the big version to zoom in once. You should just be able to make out the isolated cul-de-sac next to the words Monckton Lodge.

Clicking on the fourth map down (1851) will show you a much more zoomed-in map (scale 1:500), taken from a time when the area was much more built-up. You can buy copies of these maps by clicking on the Add to Cart buttons next to the relevant map (note, I’ve no connection with Old Maps and have not used the buying service, so can’t vouch for them personally).

Do you know how I would go about finding an old map of where my Great Grandfather used to live in Everton ? I believe the house/mansion? was called Ashleigh and it was on Walton Breck road.
Alane

Lfc4Ever

Thanks for your comment. I’ve forwarded it on to him hopefully he’ll be able to respond to you. If you’re a Facebook user you could also ask questions on the Historic Liverpool Facebook page.

This is quite a tough one. Is this similar to the kind of flagon you have? http://www.belowstairs.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Bottles___Stoneware_Flagons_57.html

I’ve found a reference to Perry the brewer in Pengwern Street near Princes Park in Toxteth, from Gore’s Directory for 1900. This may be the company that made the bottle you have.

[It’s on page 1128 of the 1900 Directory; search http://www.historicaldirectories.org.uk

Dock workers took flagons of beer with them to work – to keep them going! – as well as other manual workers. The docks, and the area of land just behind the docks were heavily industrialised parts of Liverpool right up until the Second World War. Many of these places still are.

What you have is one of the interesting little details that show what objects people were using every day. These flagons may have remained unchanged over decades – it’s an interesting part of Liverpool’s manual dock labour.

If anyone else reading this has any ideas, do add them below!

REGARDS

MJ QUIGLEY.

Thanks for commenting on the site, and sorry it’s taken me a little while to get back to you!

It’s hard to pinpoint exactly who the pre-John dwellers of Liverpool were, but going back in time, it would be something like as follows:

Normans: The Normans invaded England in 1066, and carried out their great survey, Domesday Book, in 1086. This shows that Merseyside was made up of a number of manors within the hundred of West Derby. Liverpool, although not named in Domesday, would probably have been one of these manors, consisting of a farm with surrounding lands. The people who lived in the area could probably be labelled ‘English’ as it is unlikely that Normans (from Normandy in northern France) would have completely replaced those who came before them.

English/Anglo-Saxon and Viking: Before the Norman invasion the people in the area would have been a mixture of Norse and Anglo-Saxon people, depending on exactly where you look (more Norse/Viking on the Wirral and east Lancashire, with Anglo Saxons in Walton, Allerton and West Derby). Some of the Anglo-Saxon landholders were mentioned in the Domesday Book when it lists the owners previous to the Normans, such as Uctred in West Derby.

Going back further you are looking at the Roman era, and before that the Iron Age, Bronze Age and Neolithic. The Romans had some cultural influence on Britain, but most of the population would still have been ‘British’, not Roman, and to all intents and purposes these would be the direct descendents of those who came over from the continent in the previous ice age (before the English Channel flooded). Of course, it’s hard to label them ‘British’ without assuming some sort of native people, but in prehistory there was certainly constant if slow movement all over Europe.

To answer your specific question (who were the original inhabitants of Liverpool?) it can be said that before John ‘Liverpool’ either did not exist or was little more than a farm on the banks of the Mersey. The original inhabitants of Liverpool were those who moved into the new town, which was laid out from scratch when John founded it. The older inhabitants of the general Merseyside area, however, were either British or English and Viking, depending on how far back you look.

Hope this brief overview helps, but let me know if you want any more details.

Martin

I know that this is a difficult way to get some information about Liverpool but I have just visted your site picked up from a google search so I can get some information about the history of Liverpool.

First of my name is Anzac or Zac as I am better known as, I am of Polynesian decent (Niue Island) to be pricise and I have been living in the UK with my English wife who’s parents are both from Liverpool.

Anyway I am in the middle of scribing my memoirs of my travels through this side of the world and have been in Liverpool quite a lot and have learnt so much about its history and culture, however I am stuck with information on who the orginal dwellers of Liverpool are and I have been told by a number of people that they are believed to be Anglo-Saxons and Norskemen.

I have infromation about Liverpool date back to the year King John gave Liverpool its right to be called a city.

Would you by any chance point me in the right direction as to who the original dwellers of Liverpool are before King John.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again
Zac