If Hall Lane is the new boundary, then it’s certainly changed from its historic shape. A good source for the parish boundary is on http://maps.familysearch.org/. Here you can click through a map of Lancashire, then select the option to list all the parishes. This will take you to a map. The parish of Walton-on-the-Hill stretches further north than Hall Lane. Also, on my own site you can see the rough outline of the old townships (which are generally larger than parishes). Again, the historic township stretches further north than Hall Lane. See the Map of Walton Township.

I’m not sure exactly if or when the boundaries changed, as these areas are historical. I thought perhaps the Boundary Commission might be making changes, but their map of Liverpool North does not have a boundary at Hall Lane either (though it’s not far off, near Aintree Rail Station). See http://rr-bce-static.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Liverpool-North-BC.pdf?9d7bd4 for a PDF of a map of the local authority and wards. Either way, the Commission’s decisions are not yet final (they’ll be published in March).

Hope this is of some help.
Martin

Having had a look around, I see from this discussion (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,239503.msg1323962.html#msg1323962) that there are photographs of the home in Liverpool Record Office. The discussion mentions that one of the bosses was a Thomas Clingan.

For general information on workhouses, you can’t do much better than http://www.workhouses.org.uk/. There are links to further resources. I think these should answer most of your questions which might apply to all workhouses (such as conditions, funding and who went there).

Regards,
Martin

Well, it’s definitely worth keeping an eye on eBay, as there are a couple on there at the moment, though if your date range is strictly 69-70 its hard to tell if they’re exactly what you want (Geographia maps don’t seem to have the dates on them). Have you tried the National Archives in Kew, London? I see from their website (archives.gov.uk) that they have some Geographia maps, and though I can’t find Liverpool ones, I don’t trust my web searching skills enough to know whether I’ve missed something.

There’s also Abebooks.co.uk (e.g. http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?kn=geographia+map+liverpool&sts=t&x=0&y=0), owned by Amazon though specializing in antiquarian books. It definitely has Liverpool Geographia maps of Liverpool, but not necessarily of your dates at the time of writing (mostly again due to the lack of dates printed on the map).

I think your best bet is to keep checking eBay and Abebooks, although try the Kew Archives too.

I have been trying for several years to get hold of a copy of a Liverpool A-Z, specifically dating from 1969-1970, if one was ever published. If not a Geographia map of the same date will do.

I have already tried:

Liverpool Central Library
The A-Z Company
The Geographia Maps company
The national archives in Swindon
EBay

Do you know where I might be able to obtain, or see one?

Maps are probably a good first port of call, so http://old-maps.co.uk is a good place to start for old Ordnance Survey maps. You can search for the road name itself, and then the site gives you a list of maps on the right hand side which cover the area from 1850 onwards. You can buy copies of the maps from Old Maps, but you can also view them at Record Offices (Liverpool and Lancashire both cover the area).

There’s a comprehensive coverage of researching the history of buildings (including residential ones) at http://www.buildinghistory.org/. For listed buildings, try English Heritage’s Images of England (http://imagesofengland.org.uk) or their Heritage List (http://list.english-heritage.org.uk/)

Hope this starts you off on your research, but if there’s something specific I’ve not covered, do let me know.

Regards,
Martin

I’ve posted a link to your question on the Historic Liverpool Facebook page to see if anyone there can shed any light on the area.

If you’re after maps, have you tried http://old-maps.co.uk? Type in the co-ords boxes: 336784 and 389190 respectively, and press go. Click on the small maps in the right hand column to choose your dates. The fourth one down (1891 Town Plan) gives good coverage and detail of your area. Click on the main map once to zoom in.

For photographs, it might be best to try Googling for photos of Lodge Lane, as this is the closest main route to your area of interest. However, the Toxteth riots of 1981 mean there are a lot of images from that period. There’s one evocative image of children in Lodge Lane on the Echo website: http://bit.ly/yu4pVQ.

Hope this info helps you get started.
Regards,
Martin

I’ve posted a link to your question on the Historic Liverpool Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Historic-Liverpool/232165420148779) to see if anyone else there remembers the back yard barber.

Regards,
Martin

I’m trying to find some information about the history of buildings/properties in Fox Street Everton but not having much luck. I’m douing a resarch project for my university course.

I appreciate if you know how to access them.

Many Thaks
Raif

There’s a really useful population table on Visions of Britain for Toxteth here: http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/data_cube_page.jsp?data_theme=T_POP&data_cube=N_TOT_POP&u_id=10583664&c_id=&add=N although it only goes from 1801 up to 1901. I’ve not been able to find more recent statistics.

The Vision of Britain site has a lot of statistics, but make sure you’re looking at comparable figures, as this page http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/place_units.jsp?p_id=1292 has a lot of different definitions of ‘Toxtheth Park’!

Good luck with your research,
Martin

I’ve not been able to find a reference to Linacre Park, although as you say there are a couple of roads around there with the name in.

The village of Linacre once stood on its own, where Linacre Lane and Stanley Road now join. There was a Linacre House near the junction, so it may be that Linacre Park was a colloquial name for the house and its grounds, even though it’s not marked on the map.

It’s funny you should ask this now, as I’ve just read a book about Anfield and Breckfield (Ordinary Landscapes, Special Places, by Adam Menuge) which mentions Ash Leigh (which was technically in Anfield).

Ash Leigh was a cul-de-sac which had five very large semi-detached villas on it, plus a couple of other large houses. These were inhabited by some of the wealthier Liverpudlians in the 19th century (In the 1851 census three of the inhabitants were Polish, German and Prussian merchants respectively), so perhaps your Great Grandfather was a business owner or merchant?

You can see the location of Ash Leigh on Google Maps: http://bit.ly/pXrdPX – draw an imaginary line between the end of Oban Road on the right and the right hand corner of Oakfield (the square road on the left).

To see old maps of the area, go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk, find the ‘coords’ boxes on the home page, and type 336715 in the first and 392705 in the second, then press ‘Go’.

There is a list of maps down the right hand side – click on the second one down and wait for it to load a larger version in the main pane, and then click on the big version to zoom in once. You should just be able to make out the isolated cul-de-sac next to the words Monckton Lodge.

Clicking on the fourth map down (1851) will show you a much more zoomed-in map (scale 1:500), taken from a time when the area was much more built-up. You can buy copies of these maps by clicking on the Add to Cart buttons next to the relevant map (note, I’ve no connection with Old Maps and have not used the buying service, so can’t vouch for them personally).

Do you know how I would go about finding an old map of where my Great Grandfather used to live in Everton ? I believe the house/mansion? was called Ashleigh and it was on Walton Breck road.
Alane

Lfc4Ever

Thanks for your comment. I’ve forwarded it on to him hopefully he’ll be able to respond to you. If you’re a Facebook user you could also ask questions on the Historic Liverpool Facebook page.

This is quite a tough one. Is this similar to the kind of flagon you have? http://www.belowstairs.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Bottles___Stoneware_Flagons_57.html

I’ve found a reference to Perry the brewer in Pengwern Street near Princes Park in Toxteth, from Gore’s Directory for 1900. This may be the company that made the bottle you have.

[It’s on page 1128 of the 1900 Directory; search http://www.historicaldirectories.org.uk

Dock workers took flagons of beer with them to work – to keep them going! – as well as other manual workers. The docks, and the area of land just behind the docks were heavily industrialised parts of Liverpool right up until the Second World War. Many of these places still are.

What you have is one of the interesting little details that show what objects people were using every day. These flagons may have remained unchanged over decades – it’s an interesting part of Liverpool’s manual dock labour.

If anyone else reading this has any ideas, do add them below!

REGARDS

MJ QUIGLEY.

Thanks for commenting on the site, and sorry it’s taken me a little while to get back to you!

It’s hard to pinpoint exactly who the pre-John dwellers of Liverpool were, but going back in time, it would be something like as follows:

Normans: The Normans invaded England in 1066, and carried out their great survey, Domesday Book, in 1086. This shows that Merseyside was made up of a number of manors within the hundred of West Derby. Liverpool, although not named in Domesday, would probably have been one of these manors, consisting of a farm with surrounding lands. The people who lived in the area could probably be labelled ‘English’ as it is unlikely that Normans (from Normandy in northern France) would have completely replaced those who came before them.

English/Anglo-Saxon and Viking: Before the Norman invasion the people in the area would have been a mixture of Norse and Anglo-Saxon people, depending on exactly where you look (more Norse/Viking on the Wirral and east Lancashire, with Anglo Saxons in Walton, Allerton and West Derby). Some of the Anglo-Saxon landholders were mentioned in the Domesday Book when it lists the owners previous to the Normans, such as Uctred in West Derby.

Going back further you are looking at the Roman era, and before that the Iron Age, Bronze Age and Neolithic. The Romans had some cultural influence on Britain, but most of the population would still have been ‘British’, not Roman, and to all intents and purposes these would be the direct descendents of those who came over from the continent in the previous ice age (before the English Channel flooded). Of course, it’s hard to label them ‘British’ without assuming some sort of native people, but in prehistory there was certainly constant if slow movement all over Europe.

To answer your specific question (who were the original inhabitants of Liverpool?) it can be said that before John ‘Liverpool’ either did not exist or was little more than a farm on the banks of the Mersey. The original inhabitants of Liverpool were those who moved into the new town, which was laid out from scratch when John founded it. The older inhabitants of the general Merseyside area, however, were either British or English and Viking, depending on how far back you look.

Hope this brief overview helps, but let me know if you want any more details.

Martin

I know that this is a difficult way to get some information about Liverpool but I have just visted your site picked up from a google search so I can get some information about the history of Liverpool.

First of my name is Anzac or Zac as I am better known as, I am of Polynesian decent (Niue Island) to be pricise and I have been living in the UK with my English wife who’s parents are both from Liverpool.

Anyway I am in the middle of scribing my memoirs of my travels through this side of the world and have been in Liverpool quite a lot and have learnt so much about its history and culture, however I am stuck with information on who the orginal dwellers of Liverpool are and I have been told by a number of people that they are believed to be Anglo-Saxons and Norskemen.

I have infromation about Liverpool date back to the year King John gave Liverpool its right to be called a city.

Would you by any chance point me in the right direction as to who the original dwellers of Liverpool are before King John.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again
Zac

I’ve not read Stephen Horton’s book, but as far as Laurence Westgaph’s tours are concerned, I thought perhaps he restricted himself to the city centre. I would not be surprised if there are many more suburban streets named after men involved in slavery in one way or another, and which Westgaph did not include.

What’s most interesting is the role the Beatles association plays in the debate – it seems to have been a large factor in the decision not to rename ANY Liverpool streets. Perhaps if it was not for this connection, Penny Lane (like my proposed other suburban streets, above) would not have been mentioned at all.

If I have connected Penny Lane with James Penny injustly, it is not just I who have done so.

A debate surrounded whether these streets should be renamed – including
Ypu write

Penny Lane and Bold Street – or whether by keeping the streets as they are we would be reminded of how history played itself out.

There’s absolutely no evidence that Penny Lane was named after the slave trader James Penny. He’s not included in Laurence Westgaph’s listing of street names associated with slavery or for that matter the book by Stephen Horton on the origins of Liverpool street names.

You do Liverpool no justice and a lot of harm by suggesting the only Liverpool street that people worldwide know about has slave trade associations

Nicolas Monsarrat says in his book “Three Corvettes” -

“It was curious to think that a large part of the Battle of the Atlantic was fought from this small corner: that if you wiped out this dock and what it had done since the war started, the answer might be a starving Britain.”

Perhaps Bootle history is a little understated!

Thanks for your comment. You’re absolutely right – Ireland was part of Great Britain until 1921, and so the people coming over to Liverpool were not ‘immigrants’ by the strict definition of that word.

I’ve changed it in this article to ‘migrant’, which can refer to someone who goes “from one country, region, or place to another” (Dictionary.com) and so includes movement within a country.

I’ve also updated the History of Toxteth article, which referred to people moving from Staffordshire as ‘immigrants’!

Thanks again for the tip-off. Hope the site has been useful and/or interesting for you.

Martin